Tuesday, July 10, 2018

B LO SCENE AND NEA RESPOND TO JANUS

We've wondered about how teachers and our unions would react to the Janus Supreme Court decision making union fees voluntary. Two responses stand out for me.
One is from The National Education Association while the other is from a blogger in upstate New York.

B-LoScene from up in Buffalo makes a blunt case to stay in the union and maligns anyone who will not stay as a scab who should be publicly identified. Meanwhile, the NEA says we should treat agency fee payers as potential union members who should not be shunned but should be persuaded in a respectful way to join the union. This is kind of a little bad cop-good cop.

From B-LoScene who has been very critical of NYSUT and AFT leadership many times:

Who exactly would try to dodge out of paying their fare share to enjoy the salary raises like the one we just got for starters? Who are the teachers that would try to  take advantage of the situation where it's now technically doable to rake in the job protections, the health and dental benefits and the general peace of mind we enjoy as members of collective bargaining agreements without paying their dues? What kind of cheapskate, penny pinching short sighted shitheads would think that sitting back and refusing to pay dues while everyone around them pays dues is going to be a good move in the long term? We all have a good guess already of who these teachers are based simply on their attitudes about unions and their unwillingness to tip a server. There will be a few you can bank on it.

Big picture though I am hard pressed to imagine how anyone employed as a public school teacher in 2018 can look at the crowd funding of this awful case by entities like the Koch Brothers and the Wal Mart Waltons never mind our own Secretary of Miseducation's Betsy Devos by way of her Mackinac Center and think that these billionaire players are looking out for them by allowing them to ditch out of supporting their union with a few bucks a month. Do you really think these union busting zillionaires are trying to protect you from being bullied by Phil and Becky picking your pocket?  Seriously? If you honestly think that I have to conclude you are way too stupid to be a teacher.

I'll conclude with a cautionary tale from my earliest days teaching in Buffalo. I started at Burgard Vocational in 1988 teaching in an old woodshop in the back hallway of the first floor.  A security guard I'd worked with previously at Ken High told me where the ditto machine was, who ran the coffee club and who all the scabs were. I was then introduced to my mentor/co-teacher who told me what paper to use for plans, when IEP's were due and who all the scabs were. My first free period I went to the faculty room for coffee and they told me some guys cooked pepper and onion sandwiches on Fridays if I wanted one, also who ran the check pool and who the scabs were. Mind you the strike took place in 1976 and this was 12 years later. If you think it's going to be cool and NBD to slide along not paying your dues because Betsy and the Waltons and the Kochs bought a Supreme Court ruling to bust unions you should probably check that impulse. We have a great opportunity now to stand together and stand up against the oligarchs who want us to be paid in firewood and left hooks. If you think your union dues are too high a price to pay for benefits and protections then do right by yourself and the rest of us and go teach somewhere without a union. Let us know how it goes.

There is a less hostile view coming from the National Education Association in response to Janus which basically says it is no game changer.

This is from the NEA Explainer on Janus:

4. Given Janus, why should my union do anything at all for feepayers? 

Feepayers are potential members. Like anyone else, the union should treat feepayers with respect, engage them to help them understand how educators and students will be better off if everyone does their part. Collectively, we are stronger than any one of us as individuals. 

5. What if feepayers are willing to voluntarily pay their fees? 
Janus permits unions to continue to collect fair share or agency fees if individuals clearly and affirmatively consent to such payments. 

6. What should my union be doing in response to Janus? 
The real work of the union after Janus is continuing to re-engage existing members and organize new members. 

7. Does Janus in anyway address when members can opt-out of the union? 
No, Janus was about what fees may be charged to feepayers, it did not address union membership or payroll dues deductions for members. 

NEA, AFT, NYSUT, UFT leaders are not going to make it easy to leave the unions while the rank and file brands those who aren't union members as scabs. The unions seem ready. The Koch brothers and their anti-union friends are in for a tough fight as are the teachers who are looking to bolt.

I fully comprehend everyone's frustration with our own UFT even though we make decent wages as our rights on the job are almost nonexistent in too many schools. The UFT barely goes through the motions for many of us. However, unless you are planning on organizing a union that can do a better job at upholding our collective rights, abandoning the union will harm us all. If thousands of disgruntled members want real change, organizing from the inside might be a better way to go.

66 comments:

Anonymous said...

If the Supreme Court decision was written as an opt in, (it appears that it was), this would lead to an important question. An opt in was explained to me multiple times, some by union officials, that it would result in dues being taken out of paychecks first then being asked if you want to join the union. Is this correct? Or would filling out a sign card suffice as an opt in without dues being removed at all?

Anonymous said...

Are you saying that when we receive our September 15th check there will no dues taken out as a result of the opt in decision by the Supreme Court?

Anonymous said...

B-LoScene : Another tough guy from the woodshop with saw-dust for brains.
Sound familiar?

James Eterno said...

UFT and NEA are interpreting Janus as an opt in for new teachers only. Therefore, we are all still in. They do not intend to make it easy to opt out. Government in NY is on union's side here.

If you want to do anything at all with having some leverage with dues, you need to organize the masses of unhappy teachers. I have seen no hint of organizing yet publicly anywhere. Anonymous comments are not sufficient.

Anonymous said...

I do not plan to opt out however I would like to know if their interpretation could be challenged by a UFT member? Or is it being challenged like the anti-Janus law in NYS. Mulgrew said that two NYSUT teachers are challenging this law. Does anyone know more about this?

Anonymous said...

Since it is almost business as usual the percentage of UFT members opting out should be low based on the barriers put in place (anti-Janus law, NY Government on the side of the union, etc.). Union concern over opt out would appear to be minmal here on NY. Would this be accurate or are there factors not being mentioned?

Anonymous said...

My guess is that over time perhaps 10% to 20% will out opt out based on what happened in Michigan. Also based on the recent UFT election two years ago and the contract ratification four years ago that an opt out of over 20% with the UFT would be unlikely.

James Eterno said...

Don't think Michigan or Wisconsin. They are states controlled by Republicans. NY is almost completely controlled by the Democrats. Much more union friendly as unions don't fight government as mentioned in an earlier post. Of course the policy and the law could be challenged in court. By the time it winds through the courts tier 6 people may be able to retire.

It seems like it is kind of business as usual so far but it is very early. I'm waiting to see the ad campaign the Koch funded group puts out.

Many of us who led the fight against the contract and who ran against Mulgrew's Unity Caucus in the last election are not leading the opt out charge. Think about that for a minute.

ed notes online said...

" 5. What if feepayers are willing to voluntarily pay their fees?
Janus permits unions to continue to collect fair share or agency fees if individuals clearly and affirmatively consent to such payments.

randi on brian lehrer said uft wont offer this option. either in or out. no tweeners.

Anonymous said...

However the NY State Senate is not union friendly as a LIFO passed their chamber a number of years ago against the UFT, the sponsor being John Flanagan who is now the Senate Majority Leader, would this be accurate? Governor Cuomo exhibited pro-Charter support not that long ago. Is this accurate? Didn't former Mayor Bloomberg nearly decimated the school system. system.

Anonymous said...

Can we say that the Koch brothers ad campaign will target primarily the 22 states where unions can collect an agency or fair fee from a non-member? Since the unions here in NY are being supported by the government and the anti-Janus law the Koch brothers may not launch their ad campaign here.

James Eterno said...

Right needs state legislature and governor to push anti union laws. NY today does not have that situation.

James Eterno said...

That is kind of wishful thinking on no campaign in NY but we are certainly not low hanging anti union fruit here in the Empire State.

Anonymous said...

The Koch brothers would be sinking in their money with not much upside. Some say that the camaraderie is strong among unions here in NY with the exception of teachers.

Anonymous said...

You can thank Mulgrew for that.

jeff said...

So how do we go about opting out?

Anonymous said...

In New York members actually join three groups. AFT, NYSUT, and the local. Each group sets their own dues. How do you handle members who indicate they affirmatively consent to paying local dues but do not want to be a part of NYSUT or AFT? It seems they can do that ? Anyone have input on that?

Anonymous said...

I don't remember joining the AFT, NEA, NYSUT, but I get literature from all 3. Does that mean I am a member?

Anonymous said...

Dropping out of the UFT is actually more pro union than staying in this corrupt,self-serving,dues wasting, pseudo union that currently exists.

65 staffers are making over $150,000 per year. Our hard earned money is wasted on retreats, baseball tickets,donations to left wing groups,etc.

We can all send a messege that we want a REAL union, one that truly represents NYC teachers, but it will take some guts.

Anonymous said...

The Koch brothers ad campaign might bring the UFT to their knees. The UFT is the weak link in the NYS unions. There is no camaraderie, poor working conditions in too many schools and a union leader who contributed to the decline of the UFT by rarely addressing the struggles of teachers.

James Eterno said...

Nobody has more anti-Unity Caucus credentials than Norm Scott or me. I stood up to Weingarten for a decade on the UFT Executive Board. I have challenged Mulgrew at the Delegate Assembly sometimes when nobody else will. This blog is the only place that I know of outside of David Irons facebook page that has publicly criticized the Parental Leave agreement. I may have had a union job years ago had I played the Unity game. I am anything but a Unity hack.

That said, I will take Randi Weingarten, Michael Mulgrew and Andy Pallotta and their concessionary union over having an even weaker union or no union. South Bronx School, Norm and I have all said it in various ways. If you want this union fixed, all of us, and I mean everyone, has to get involved.Anonymous comments saying you won't pay dues are not enough. I understand the protest but it isn't sufficient. We need to build a better union. Not go without one.

Anonymous said...

How can we stop paying dues?

Anonymous said...

How do we opt out?

Anonymous said...

Figure it out yourself you selfish freeloader.

Anonymous said...

2:05. If you want to opt out, send a letter to your payroll dept , indicating you are rescinding your consent to have dues deducted copy the Union. I am sure if there are other procedures in place they will be in touch

Anonymous said...

Freeloaders aiding freeloaders.

Anonymous said...

(Explicative deleted) need not apply - only sheep are appreciated. I'm an ATR being called a freeloader is a big step up.

Anonymous said...

I have removed my dues as of 9/16.

Anonymous said...

No more dues from this big fat Jew!

Anonymous said...

Who exactly did you contact?

Anonymous said...

Call HR. Simple, done.

Anonymous said...

If you aren't a union member or don't want to be, why are you commenting on a union blog?

Anonymous said...

7:58 is the enemy within.

Anonymous said...

With all the ATRs and newly excessed I came across this - https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=7401f3d34b94ef5a&from=serp&prevUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indeed.com%2Fm%2Fjobs%3Fq%3DFull%2BTime%2BHospital%2BTeacher
I don't blame anyone for leaving the UFT or the DOE. I can't tell them apart.

Anonymous said...

You know what’s really messed up? I was excessed from Crotona International HS and I make 85k. Now I’m an ATR. That ad is for a new teacher at Crotona. I’m calling HR tomorrow morning and opting out of the UFT.

Anonymous said...

Straight up fact: If the UFT does not push to get us 2 observations in the next contract, I will be very tempted to pull my dues. Why should I support a union that does not fight to get me what every other teacher union has in NYS? Fact is fact.

Anonymous said...

Any ATR that continues to pay dues to the union that was complicit in creating that purgatory is an idiot.

Anonymous said...

I agree 100%. I’m out!

Anonymous said...

Scabs and freeloaders and fools. Wait until they put a time limit to get a new job into contract. That law would pass in a second with UFT support.

Anonymous said...

A time limit would be a violation of NYS Civil Service Law and the other unions would fight it.

Anonymous said...


I think the UFT began its slow death in 1996. The UFT has lost its way. Every new contract is worse than the previous contract. Teaching conditions are deteriorating and a high school diploma means nothing. I don't think anyone takes Michael Mulgrew seriously. Is there any hope? Will it make a difference if 25% of the teachers opt out?

Anonymous said...

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me a million times, shames on me. Im done getting fooled by this so called union. You are asking for the same if you continue supporting this crap.

Anonymous said...

Just look around in job opportunity platforms. There are many other offers from DOENYC schools. Who is held responsible for this? We should be able to send these ads to the UFT and the UFT should do something? Anything is better than nothing.

Anonymous said...

The UFT is facing a day of reckoning with its mistreatment of teachers.

Anonymous said...

If UFT supported it, the bill to change last in first out only for NYC teachers would pass in about five seconds in Albany.

Anonymous said...

$100,000 a year with unparalleled benefits and a pension. Where do nonunion teachers get that?

Anonymous said...

Can't wait until you anti union fools are outed as scabs. Looking forward to seeing you anonymous scabs exposed.

Anonymous said...

Waters/Hogg 2020! Can't wait for my uft bumper stickers. Sinking further down the sewer.

Anonymous said...

Good then everyone eventually becomes an ATR. The fast and sure fire death of the UFT.

Anonymous said...

You think any of us care? I can’t get a teacher to unlock the restroom for me. Fuck you all.

James Eterno said...

Your answer to being mistreated by the UFT is to leave the UFT which would make the union weaker and will cause them to do even less for teachers. Fixing the union or starting some kind of alternate union are much better suggestions. Just withholding dues makes no sense to me and will be counterproductive in the long run for sure. Please show me where weaker unions mean better working conditions anywhere in history.

I get the frustration but the remedy of leaving the union will make the disease worse. Yes, you will save a little money if you don't take your meds but eventually it will kill you and the disease will spread to all of us.

Anonymous said...

What a lot of people want is payback. They want payback for all of the abuse that the UFT has put onto us. Many here think that withholding dues will cause the UFT to crumble and thus Mulgrew would actually be forced to teach his wood shop class again under Danielson like the rest of us peons. That is his nightmare. Thus, there is a belief to put fear into the hearts of the UFT honchoes to actually get them to work for us or they will have to suffer like us. IF the UFT crumbles, so be it. Then we can start from scratch. (Again, I am not advocating this stance, but it is the way a lot of teachers are thinking right now)

James Eterno said...

I get the anger with the union but we all go down if the union goes down.

Anonymous said...

So lets pull dues, get a good contract, show improvement in all the problem areas, then I will gladly return to paying...

James Eterno said...

How are you going to get a good contract if thousands of people drop out? UFT has no leverage already as the leadership has encouraged passivity in the membership. A smaller membership means less activism leading to even less leverage.

Why would city DOE yield on anything under those circumstances?

A rank and file ready to fight leads to leverage which gives us a fighting chance to push the leadership to make contractual gains.

These are serious questions. You think Mulgrew waves a magic wand and the city/DOE says ok? They say no. Mulgrew is a less than effective leader because he won't push us to challenge the city's positions. However, without that rank and file push, we are nowhere. Leaving the union, unless you can organize an alternative union, worsens the situation.

Anonymous said...

How do we opt out?

Anonymous said...

No can be this stupid. You have to be the UFT trying to piss off people. I’m want to opt out and you’re even pissing me off.

Anonymous said...

Learn how to write a coherent sentence 7:48.

Anonymous said...

Ok James, so when we all don't opt out, then we get ANOTHER bad deal, then what?

Anonymous said...

Leaving the UFT is not just payback it is also a message that many of us are suffering. I am not only passive but afraid. The anxiety is through the roof at my school. Administrators harass teachers everyday. Lesson planning takes hours. Other required paperwork takes hours. Unending, non-paid before or after school hours. Teachers are divided. Some teachers are required to do a lot of the extras and others skate doing nothing. CL says to just do what admins say because it is worse in other schools. What kind of answer is that?

"We all go down if the union goes down." So those who are down are supposed to keep supporting those who are up? I think those of use who are down have been waiting for the support of those who are up. I think going down may be the point of those who opt out. If we all go down, we can rebuild.

Leaving the UFT may also a baby step toward leaving teaching in the NYC DOE.

James Eterno said...

A union gets power from its members collectively willing to fight. There is safety in numbers. Simple as that. It would be much better to organize a fight now when a potentially strong union structure is in place than to tear it down and start over. We don't need to all be treated like Success Academy teachers before we battle back.

Get in touch with Norm or me off the blog and we will attempt to figure something out for you and your school.

Anonymous said...

6:37 has a point I agree with. How many of us who are "up" can honestly say we have given adequate support to those who are "down"? I'm staying in the union but I have no animosity toward those who have had enough with being ignored by the UFT and feel they have no recourse other than to stop paying dues. Many of these people have been humiliated time and time again by their administrators so I doubt trying to shame them as freeloaders will have any impact. Then there are people like me who wouldn't give a rat's behind if my picture with the freeloader label was printed on the front page of every newspaper. I stopped caring what others think of me when I left my teenage years behind. This debate goes in circles because both sides have valid arguments. This is why I remained neutral in my school with respect to Janus. Each UFT member has to make the decision for him/herself. UFT leadership made the bed that we, who choose to stay, have to lie in. I blame leadership for any loss in membership--not the deserting members. Roseanne McCosh

Bronx ATR said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bronx ATR said...


I think many of us feel the same way as Roseanne. I would add that teachers and ATRs are incredibly fearful, even of the UFT. That's profoundly wrong. They're afraid to complain, sign a petition or let anyone know they plan on opting out. Some are planning on holding on until September, awaiting an epiphany from the UFT, i.e. an ATR Chapter, an end to Fair Student Funding or thoughtful placement outside the bowels of hell. I don't believe that epiphany will ever materialize. Most of the disaffected and demoralized aren't going to try to start something better. They will go on living their lives in quiet desperation without financially supporting the UFT. None of this makes rational sense but is a visceral emotional reaction to an undemocratic union that has allowed unmitigated suffering to continue unabated.

Anonymous said...

Fact: 99% of teachers who work in good schools with good admins are not thinking about nor would even consider helping the tens of thousands of teachers who work in hell hole schools in NYC. Those who are not suffering are not willing to step up and help those who are suffering. Teaching in NYC is every man and woman for him/herself. The truth is that those who are suffering are really not asking for the UFT to do that much. We are simply asking for the UFT to make a real fight to do things like end Danielson, work to get us 2 observations, and bring back seniority based transfers. These simple requests would not cost the taxpayers of NYC a single dime nor or they politically sensitive topics. Those who work in good schools are not effected by these topics and as such, feel no need to put pressure on the UFT to try and get us these changes. I find it ironic that 80,000 people singed a paid maternity leave petition but less than 1,500 signed a petition to repeal our evaluation system. This is all about the greed mentality of teachers in NYC. Tons of teachers want "paid" leave because the majority of teachers in NYC are women but most don't work in hell hole schools. However, there are a TON of hell hole schools in this city and teachers who work in them are suffering tremendously. Where is the solidarity for them? We have become our own worse enemy and the UFT is doing nothing to try and remedy this situation because the UFT simply wants to keep their seat at the table with the mayor and keep those dues coming in. Well, things might be changing very soon. We shall see.

Anonymous said...

James,

I am afraid of more retaliation if I reached out to you or Norm. Yes, I am paranoid. I already receive "special treatment" at my school and am not looking for any more. I see how the ATRs are treated and would rather not be one right now.

I so much appreciate this blog. I see that I am not alone and there are educators out there who experience the same nonsense and that there are those willing to fight for us.

I will probably stay in the union but I wish they would read this blog, see how so many are hurting and do more for us. I agree with Roseanne, Bronx ATR and Anonymous 12:15.