tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post116373015119776548..comments2024-03-07T15:25:26.971-05:00Comments on ICEUFT Blog: The Contract: What’s the Rush?Jeff Kaufmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11728874415155394751noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-23800910109965868532014-07-07T12:32:08.229-04:002014-07-07T12:32:08.229-04:00Does anyone happen to have a copy of this? Even th...Does anyone happen to have a copy of this? Even though it is expired by now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165295091174977132006-12-05T00:04:00.000-05:002006-12-05T00:04:00.000-05:00Justdatruth Feel free to email anytime. I'll keep ...Justdatruth<BR/> Feel free to email anytime. I'll keep you anon. norscot@aol.com<BR/>Or email from my ednotes blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165268477281371942006-12-04T16:41:00.000-05:002006-12-04T16:41:00.000-05:00To Norm: You've made some good points. Thanks for ...To Norm: You've made some good points. Thanks for the clarification. It all sounds truthful to me and I appreciate that. I'll get back to you. I would like some answers to some other questions.JustdaTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714978885742437251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165239797763911722006-12-04T08:43:00.000-05:002006-12-04T08:43:00.000-05:00Justdatruth, I take your word for it. You are an i...Justdatruth,<BR/> I take your word for it. You are an independent, were against the last contract and feel this one makes sense. I am hearing of other people who are in the same place as you are. I am as out there as anyone on being anti-Unity and never take the position that you all have patronnage jobs. Those attacks are not thought out and not a position ICE would take. A chunk of people who support what we do are in that place.<BR/><BR/> You say "People are looking for alternatives to the current leadership that's for sure. Could it be possible if the current UFT leadership, becomes better leaders, they may be better at running than UFT than the opposition."<BR/><BR/>I only speak for myself here and not for ICE. There is no real opposition yet as far as I am concerned- at least until there is a machine in place that can counter Unity on a mass basis. <BR/><BR/>Ed Notes began over 10 years ago with the purpose of making Weingarten and co. better union leaders because I had no faith in New Action doing any better. For over 5 years I gave Randi the benefit of the doubt to such an extent that I voted for her in her first election and was accused by New Action of being an agent of Unity.<BR/><BR/>But when Randi endorsed mayoral control and some other issues, I began to see her actions as no different that past leaders and started to use Ed Notes as an organizing tool to try to create an opposition that would have more force in making Randi a "better" union leader. (Funny, when I told that to Randi at a retirement party in the fall of 2002 (a year before ICE was born) she said "good idea.")<BR/><BR/>Because of the realities of "winning" power in the UFT, experienced ICE people in union politics seemed to understand that we would never contend for power but would at most if we got support from the members push Randi to make certain reforms. We also have certain political points we want to make, some of them not necessarily popular with the members.<BR/><BR/>Your view of how people in ICE function is narrow - like it is all about union politics. We have a point of view and want to convince people. Is it possible after all these years we have no faith in the Weingarten leadership and distrust things she does and tend to look underneath the rock? YES. The closer you are to the actions of the leadership -- like going to Exec bd meetings, etc the more you see things lurking underneath.<BR/><BR/>But given that, there has definitely been a response to the high NO vote in the last contract. If it had won overwhelmingly, I do not think there would have been many of the current iniatives. <BR/><BR/>Do I think that much of it is being done for political reasons given history? Hell yes. And I don't have much faith that there is much beyond PR until I see results. In that light, the higher the No vote the "better" we can make the union leaders. A cynical reason for voting NO? Maybe. But history does repeat itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165204967987650822006-12-03T23:02:00.000-05:002006-12-03T23:02:00.000-05:00UTP doesn't support the contract. They are just d...UTP doesn't support the contract. They are just down on the members. They said they're voting maybe which probably means no.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165185095238397252006-12-03T17:31:00.000-05:002006-12-03T17:31:00.000-05:00Getting back to anonymous(11-26, 12:02:42: I will ...Getting back to anonymous(11-26, 12:02:42: <BR/>I will not reveal my exact connection to the negotiation committee. The anti-Unity party line seems to be that any person who supports this contract must have a "patronage job" whatever that is. I think you buy into that logic, or either with all due respect you are just shouting out the party line, because you can't believe that your views are possibly wrong. Did I question your political connections? No. Only your logic. Sorry If I sound so stern but it is these type of accusations that are angering Independents. I would like to answer all your questions, maybe we'll meet in another arena. My views may be wrong, however after many years of Union activism (non paid) I think I know a thing or two. Answering your question: I do not have any such job and I did not support the last contract. I do not see any sellout on the ATR issue and the PIP issues. The ATR was sold out on the last contract. The PIP is really no issue. There is a lot of spin as to that topic (fear mongering). People are looking for alternatives to the current leadership that's for sure. Could it be possible if the current UFT leadership, becomes better leaders, they may be better at running than UFT than the opposition. Any way,<BR/>I just want to know the truth -- hence my blog name. An interesting post: See Max "the sell out factor's" post commenting on the first UTP blog. Do the UTP'ers have patronage job's also? Last time I heard I think they are still waiting for their two pensions.JustdaTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714978885742437251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165091103604615652006-12-02T15:25:00.000-05:002006-12-02T15:25:00.000-05:00Hypatia look in the mirror and you will see whose ...Hypatia look in the mirror and you will see whose ideas are destroying this union.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165033205500638622006-12-01T23:20:00.000-05:002006-12-01T23:20:00.000-05:00But Hypatia, You must have lesson plans to write,...But Hypatia,<BR/> You must have lesson plans to write, papers to mark, etc. Aren't you busy organizing the chapter in your school to fight for respect? Don't you have phone calls to make for another useless politician supported by the UFT leadership? Don't you have to convince people that mayoral control is a good thing once Bloomberg is out? And what about the class size campaign? There are so many things on the Unity agenda and so little time. Yet you find time to touch our little irrational lives with your pearls of wisdom. <BR/><BR/>Enjoy exposing the forces that will destroy our union? Look no further than the leadership. Check the condition of the union in the schools and ask: Are chapters stronger or weaker as a union than they were 10 years ago? Then ask who has presided over the destruction of the union. Certainly not ICE or TJC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165031521507700422006-12-01T22:52:00.000-05:002006-12-01T22:52:00.000-05:00Oh, Irrational, I thank you for your concern, but ...Oh, Irrational, I thank you for your concern, but you needn't worry about me wasting my time. I enjoy exposing the forces that would try to destroy my union.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164861876484784232006-11-29T23:44:00.000-05:002006-11-29T23:44:00.000-05:00Hypatia, What's really sad is the amount of time y...Hypatia,<BR/> What's really sad is the amount of time you waste posting to this "sad" blog. If every rational member will be voting "Yes" why are you putting such effort into convincing the irrational ones like us? You full well know that the vote in favor will be overwhelming. But that is not enough. You want to get the same percentage of votes Suddam Hussein used to get in the Iraq elections - 99%. Do you think that will make you feel secure? No matter what contract you came up with, without addressing issues like the 37 minutes or the ATRs, people in the schools will be miserable. No matter what obfuscations Unity engages in, people will know who to blame for that. Better spend your time trying to convince the rational people voting "yes" that Unity had nothing to do with the 2005 contract.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164774454236915282006-11-28T23:27:00.000-05:002006-11-28T23:27:00.000-05:00The really sad thing about this website is that so...The really sad thing about this website is that some people here seem more interested in discrediting the leadership of our union than in doing what is in accordance with the wishes of the membership. It's obvious by speaking with colleagues and friends that the vast majority of people in the schools support this contract. Playing on their fears with the WHAT IF and PERHAPS MAYBE game is not only irresponsible, it's downright destructive. The contract before us may not be 'the best of all possible contracts' - we've never gotten one that fits that definition, and it is highly improbable that we ever will. What we have before us is a decent offer: reasonable raises, no givebacks, continuation of all of our benefits and rights and a bridge to a time after Bloomberg and Klein. Every rational member, without a personal ax to grind, will be voting 'yes.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164688393920569452006-11-27T23:33:00.000-05:002006-11-27T23:33:00.000-05:00At this point a NO vote has little to do with this...At this point a NO vote has little to do with this contract and a lot to do as a no-confidence vote in the current leadership.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164685808162649202006-11-27T22:50:00.000-05:002006-11-27T22:50:00.000-05:00Vote no and get what? When? More importantly, how?...Vote no and get what? When? More importantly, how?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164664203052625402006-11-27T16:50:00.000-05:002006-11-27T16:50:00.000-05:00Be brave and vote no. Don't worry you'll feel goo...Be brave and vote no. Don't worry you'll feel good about it and when the you know what hits the fan, you can proudly say I told you so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164596910788910682006-11-26T22:08:00.000-05:002006-11-26T22:08:00.000-05:00The Greatest Contract Ever Sold A bunch of us went...The Greatest Contract Ever Sold <BR/><BR/>A bunch of us went to see Frank Rich and Alan Brinkley (David Brinkley’s son) at CUNY recently. Rich’s book, “The Greatest Story Ever Sold,” about the unraveling of the Bush administration has opened up a window to the way the Iraq war was sold to the public and the shameful buying into it all by the press. We found eerie similarities to the way the NYC Ed press in New York and even nationally have brought into the BloomKlein story of reform in the NYC school system. <BR/><BR/>As the Bush story has unraveled the press has begun to try to wipe some of the egg off its face. We can only hope the same thing happens here as the BloomKlein fiction unravels. <BR/><BR/>Speaking of selling snake oil, a book should be written called “The Greatest Contract Ever Sold” about how the UFT leadership managed to sell the 2005 contract, the worst contract ever signed since it gave back so many of the gains over the last 40 years; a contract being compared unfavorably with the one the Indians signed with the Dutch - hey, the UFT didn't even ask for the $24 in beads as a takeback.<BR/><BR/>Despite the sell job, 40% of the teachers voted against. The 2-year extension of the “GCES” will not require as much effort but the UFT leadership is not taking any chances and is sending “the suits” into the schools. These “suave” characters will actually end up getting more votes against the contract.<BR/><BR/>Remember the promises of a year ago? Coming soon – 55/25. The end to micromanagement? Teachers having the freedom to choose the schools they want to go to?<BR/><BR/>Ask the numerous teachers, many of them over 40, whose schools have been closed (which many of us suspect are often for bogus reasons designed to get rid of all the teachers, something the UFT has gone along with) and are now day-to-day subs. This can happen to any school that closes. Attacks on experienced teachers continue to go on as the DOE is trying to run a Peace Corps where it replaces and retrains teachers every few years. The newer teachers who do stay will one day find themselves as they get older under the same attacks as the DOE adopts a corporate culture where people are driven out as they age. The new 100G salary? Sounds great but what percentage of people who enter teaching will stay long enough to get it? As salaries climb, attempts to make people leave will rise with it. <BR/><BR/>The new contract offers a “voluntary” buyout to the people who cannot get jobs who have to work as day-to-day subs. They will probably put people in the DOE version of Abu Ghraib until they say, “I give.” Or just maybe a simple transfer to somewhere as far away from their home as possible. Or make them take the “A” train. Look for the DOE to put out no-bid contracts for water-boarding equipment and electric shock therapy equipment for each region.<BR/><BR/>Warning: statements like the above have officially been branded “fear mongering” by Unity hacks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164596434165080812006-11-26T22:00:00.000-05:002006-11-26T22:00:00.000-05:00It's not so wonderful at the DOE as the newspaper ...It's not so wonderful at the DOE as the newspaper reports that to transfer from a living hell is impossible. Why would anyone want to keep this contract for three more years?<BR/><BR/><BR/>New York Post<BR/>SUING OVER RELIGIOUS PRINCIPAL<BR/>By JANON FISHER<BR/><BR/>November 26, 2006 -- A Jewish art teacher claims her principal's Christian prayer groups and the staff's anti-Semitic slurs turned her job at a Brooklyn public school into a living hell - and now she's fighting back with a lawsuit.<BR/>Melissa Eder, 43, thought she'd finally found her dream job when she was hired by the 219-student East New York Family Academy on Linden Boulevard in October 2003.<BR/>What she didn't realize was that in this hard-bitten corner of the education system, the edict about separation of church and state was routinely ignored, she said.<BR/>Eder also had no idea she would eventually have to face off with staff who compared Adolf Hitler to Gandhi and the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.<BR/>Eder said the problems began about six months into her new job. She said she was approached by one of the teachers and asked whether she wanted to join the "prayer circle" of six faculty members who huddled every morning with Principal Sheila Richards. She declined.<BR/>Then, during a staff meeting at the beginning of her second year, the principal invited the teachers out into the hallway to join in a group prayer.<BR/>"She asked Jesus Christ for guidance in the upcoming school year," Eder said. "I was the only one that didn't participate. I do fundamentally believe in the separation of church and state so you can have religious freedom."<BR/>The other teachers, however, were shocked that Eder bowed out of the prayer, she said.<BR/>Another prayer session detailed by Eder occurred in 2003, when, she said, English department staff asked students to bow their heads as they waited to start their Regents exams.<BR/>The Department of Education refused to comment on the allegations, but a 1964 Supreme Court decision prohibits faculty-led prayer in school.<BR/>Eder said her alienation from her Christian peers reached a peak during a staff-development seminar in 2004, when faculty members were instructed to divide into groups and discuss why Gandhi, King and Hitler were considered "revolutionary figures."<BR/>"Somebody said, 'Let the students draw their own conclusions about the Holocaust,' " she said. "I didn't realize the Holocaust was a revolution that made a positive change. I couldn't make them understand."<BR/>Eder also claimed that a picture card of Rebbe Moshiach, the Jewish prophet, was placed on her seat in the teacher's lounge to identify it as hers.<BR/>She said that in her second year Richards told her: "I know you hate this school. You're like a poison. I'll sign your transfer papers."<BR/>When she eventually tried to transfer, she found it impossible to find a comparable position in the city school system.<BR/>In June 2005, when Richards told Eder that her contract would not be renewed, she filed a claim with the city.<BR/>Last week, Richards referred all inquiries to Department of Education headquarters.<BR/>The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission investigated and on Aug. 23, issued Eder a right-to-sue letter, said her lawyer, Joseph Carbonaro.<BR/>Last week, Eder filed suit in federal court in Manhattan for $3 million in damages.<BR/>janon.fisher@nypost.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164588083478839562006-11-26T19:41:00.000-05:002006-11-26T19:41:00.000-05:00While you answered some of my questions, you left ...While you answered some of my questions, you left out others that have nothing to do with your oath:<BR/><BR/>Are you currently working for the union either as CC or afterwork?<BR/>How were you selected for the committee? New Question: Did you also support the last contract?<BR/><BR/>Also you did not speak to the ATR and PIP issues which in my opinion are sell outs. How can you argue no givebacks when these are givebacks?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164585239652709102006-11-26T18:53:00.000-05:002006-11-26T18:53:00.000-05:00Two things:1. We've already heard that once the ma...Two things:<BR/>1. We've already heard that once the mayor was gone, we would have an easier time with the new mayor. However, that mayor was Giuliani. We did NOT have an easier time with the new mayor. What if Klein is successful in his quest to be the next mayor? We have to destroy him NOW.<BR/><BR/>2. Most members of the negotiating committee were hand picked by Randi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164564201965362142006-11-26T13:03:00.000-05:002006-11-26T13:03:00.000-05:00Dear anonymous,Thank you for what you said. What w...Dear anonymous,<BR/>Thank you for what you said. What was said during the negotiating committee meetings, is confidential. However since certain topics voted on by the negotiation committee were discussed in the delegate assembly, I will comment on those. Yes I am a classroom teacher and was a member of the committee. There was serious discussion on all the issues. Once we decided to use the pattern aggresively it was like a working with a "two edged sword": in my opinion if we said the pattern was the pattern, since DC 37 didn't get any "particular give backs" we shouldn't expect any. The part of the contract I like the most, is the fact that when Bloomberg/Klein are gone, we can a much better chance of negotiating back some of the terrible aspects the last contract brought us. I suffer under them also, but I didn't think Bloomberg/ Klein would give or sell back the work rules they covet. I think it was better to get a short term contract with no losses, minimal gains, than wait it out or choose another strategy possibly lose things. These were all judgement calls. In my opinion there was absolutely no sellout. When you observe the vote by the committee there was an obvious consensus. All of the committees decisions went to the D.A. In my opinion everything was done according to "Hoyle". The problem I think people are having is with the ethics of the current leadership. They are in my opinion improving, driven mainly by member outrage about how they were treated in the past.JustdaTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714978885742437251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164560562807862812006-11-26T12:02:00.000-05:002006-11-26T12:02:00.000-05:00I was the "anon" you referred to and I immediately...I was the "anon" you referred to and I immediately realized that was not your post and agree that it was a stupid thing to do. And, I have spoken up about the sophomoric antics on this site before, and it came on the heels of your response to my comment, so for the record, I did not do that.<BR/><BR/>The poster could have just asked: Are you really a full-time teacher? If so, do you have it easier than the rest of us. Do you also have some union position either in your school or with the UFT? Were you on the committee? How were the members chosen? I really would like answers to these questions.<BR/><BR/>But more importantly, how much time was actually dedicated towards the takeback issue? How many really stood up to the powers on this issue? I remember reading that the members voted for talks regarding more givebacks as long as it wasn't in "time". They felt to vote down such a proposal was unrealistic. I think a strong union would have voted for no more givebacks at all, yet PIP is no longer under union control. ATRs are still not placed and we still have no idea about the possible rate we will soon be paying for health. Are you willing to speak to these questions too because I have yet to get a straight answer from anyone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164467702245037222006-11-25T10:15:00.000-05:002006-11-25T10:15:00.000-05:00I am very flattered that somebody chose a blog nam...I am very flattered that somebody chose a blog name that was very close to mine in order to confuse people. I am now convinced that my points are even more accurate than I thought. "Justdatruth said" chose that name to confuse people into thinking that the one and only justdatruth changed positions on supporting the contract, which I haven't. The people who are against this contract are really grasping at straws to win support. They have lost the argument and now are using fake names to discredit the true blogger. I find it kind of funny. However it is really pathetic. And thats the truth!JustdaTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714978885742437251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164429253033684462006-11-24T23:34:00.000-05:002006-11-24T23:34:00.000-05:00I had a very long conversation with some friends o...I had a very long conversation with some friends over Thanksgiving and it was pointed out to me how wrong this contract is and why we should not settle so early. Teaching used to be fun and I realize how many of you are having a hard time. It was wrong of me to support this contract especially when I won't even work under it. Sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164416553526474462006-11-24T20:02:00.000-05:002006-11-24T20:02:00.000-05:00To anonymous "above" as to your statement that the...To anonymous "above" as to your statement that the negotiating committee was not being representative of the rank and file. In some ways I agree. However probably not in the way you do. Members of the negotiation committee were very different than most of the rank and file, they volunteered their time even over the summer to try to acheive a contract settlement. They cared about their fellow members and they worked hard and debated all the issues (including the so called takebacks of the so called givebacks). They were activists by deed. Not by words, as are many of the people (including possibly yourself) who do not value the work done by the negotiation committee.JustdaTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714978885742437251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164387493517059752006-11-24T11:58:00.000-05:002006-11-24T11:58:00.000-05:00I also predict the contract will pass with over 90...I also predict the contract will pass with over 90% approval, but this contract is not the leadership.<BR/><BR/>This contract is about money, leadership is another issue. I don't believe the negotiating committee represented the mass rank and file because even those that voted Yes on the last contract did so while holding their noses. I can see soon-to-be retirees as well as new teachers voting for this contract again because it benefits the new and old while those in the middle are not compensated as much.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes change is good, unless you have a patronage job you are not willing to part with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1164342749716118982006-11-23T23:32:00.000-05:002006-11-23T23:32:00.000-05:00People are very happy with this contract. They lik...People are very happy with this contract. They like the money, they like the cap on prescription drugs, and they like the fact that we will never have to negotiate with Bloomberg again. They even welcome the new five year longevity for teachers and paras. You opposition folks are way off base. Your lies about health care and mayoral control have fallen on deaf ears, proving that our members are too smart to fall for your nonsense. I predict that the contract will pass with over 90% approval.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com