tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post116470997092149041..comments2024-03-07T15:25:26.971-05:00Comments on ICEUFT Blog: Q&A On Proposed ContractJeff Kaufmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11728874415155394751noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165687069361512092006-12-09T12:57:00.000-05:002006-12-09T12:57:00.000-05:00Unity Caucus and its patroage mill are two of the ...Unity Caucus and its patroage mill are two of the main reasons we are treated like dirt in the schools. Careerists usually make lousy union fighters.<BR/><BR/>Several years ago there was an article in Westchester about $100,000 a year teachers. NYC will be there in 2008, way too late and we gave away most of our rights too get there. <BR/><BR/>I hope enough people who read this blog will help to vote against Unity and New Action in the spring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165666647876250602006-12-09T07:17:00.000-05:002006-12-09T07:17:00.000-05:00Anon. Thanks for enlightening me. Now I see what t...Anon.<BR/> Thanks for enlightening me. Now I see what this teaching beusiness is all about - the money. How dare teachers actually put a priority on class size or other working conditions? Now I know I should have voted YES in '75 and not worry about the 13 colleagues who one day just disappeared from my school. And I should empty my memory banks of the day when Al Shanker said as we walked over the Brooklyn Bridge, "We won't go back 'till we all go back" but two weeks later went back minus 15,000 people. And soon after was born the gleam of Tier 3 and Tier 4. Do I believe that someone who makes a comment like yours actually works full-time in a school? Hell NO!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165634188930893212006-12-08T22:16:00.000-05:002006-12-08T22:16:00.000-05:00Yes anonymous!ICE is demented and crazy and thank ...Yes anonymous!<BR/>ICE is demented and crazy and thank goodness no one listens to the poor schnooks or reads what they write or pay any attention - Except for you, of course. But then again, you are here saving the possible reader or two who might wander by from being tainted by ICE lunacy. You are a savior!<BR/><BR/>The few crazy ICE members are demented and must be ignored by the membership, unless they are demented too. Maybe even the 40% who voted No last time. wonderful that you stop by to straighten them out.<BR/><BR/>Here you are, taking valuable time away from supporting your family and defending your members and all the other busy things you do. There must be a grievance you need to decide not to follow-up on or to ignore some principal killing teachers. <BR/><BR/>You grace this poor little unnoticed blog with your presence - quite touching and gratifying to the lonely ICE members, all 3 of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165599201278328452006-12-08T12:33:00.000-05:002006-12-08T12:33:00.000-05:00Yea Norm, thanks for the whoop de do! See, if you ...Yea Norm, thanks for the whoop de do! See, if you would have waited another 6 years, you could have gotten several letters in your file and your leadership academy principal would have made your life miserable for the last 3. You're such a loser! You went on strike 3 times! Gosh, our current leadership gave away those same rights you fought for 30 years ago for a song and a dance. If only you knew back then what you know now about the UFT, you never would have gone on strike and risk your precious 8k salary. Hey listen Norm, the political climate has changed. You have to change with them. Back then, I'm sure the union really meant something, had real power, could demand basic work rights. Today's UFT is about looking good. What's being written in the paper about us. Today's policies are written thru negotiation. We want money to barely keep up with the cost of living in the city, we have to give up the same rights you foolishly went on strike for 30 years before. Whatsamatter with you? Snap out of it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165575069224760132006-12-08T05:51:00.000-05:002006-12-08T05:51:00.000-05:00Oh, oh, Norm, So you haven't voted yes on a contra...Oh, oh, Norm, <BR/><BR/>So you haven't voted yes on a contract since 1970? Man, I was worried this was maybe a bad contract (not really). Now I am not worried anymore as I realize that you are demented (I kind of new that before). Of course you would have to be crazy to be part of ice (incredibly crazy educators) to begin with, but now my concerns have been put to rest. If it were up to you and your ice people we would still be making 8 k a year or out on the streets picketing. You've identified class size reduction as your "thing". Again, I was worried that maybe you'd be like us and be worried about paying your mortgage, your kids education, or just simply putting food on your table. I guess you counted on other people providing this for you and never took the consequences of voting no, and going on a strike very seriously. I am glad you were able to retire at 70k but I must say to you that if you would've retired six years later you would've reached 100k. Wow, a 30k increase in 3 years! Not bad Norm, not bad. But of course, how can you possibly like this...heck...you even accused Al Shanker of selling us out. Thanks Norm. Thanks for nothing. You've done nothing in the last 30 years to enhance the lives of our members, yet you enjoy the benefits of the hard work of those who had to look at the economomy, the public will, the political climate and get us contracts that protected our rights and brought a certain degree of economic security to our lives. You have achieved nothing except perhaps your ability to say "I have voted no on every contract since 1970". You must feel really good about this. Enjoy it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165554717711444522006-12-08T00:11:00.000-05:002006-12-08T00:11:00.000-05:00I earned my right to comment on contracts and some...I earned my right to comment on contracts and some of you have some nerve saying I don't.<BR/><BR/>I never voted for one contract no matter what the raise since I became active in the UFT in 1970 when I was making about 8 grand. I always looked at class size reduction as my personal bottom line. <BR/><BR/>And I went out on 3 strikes with the UFT, the last one in 1975 and fought like hell to stay out until every one of the 15,000 people were hired back but Shanker sold that strike out. My school alone lost 13 people out of about 50.<BR/><BR/>And when the custodial workers in my school went on strike, I stayed out a day to walk the picket line with them (okay, so I wanted to make sure they cleaned up the cat shit in my closet.)<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'm pointing out that though I have a tier 1 pension, etc. I have the right to give my opinion just as those 300 Unity Caucus retirees at the delegate assembly do and all those Unity retirees at the Exec. Bd do regularly. Soldini and March made statements at the last one. And Abe Levine comments all the time. And we see more than we need to of Pappas. <BR/><BR/>So these arguments about my being set (and I retired in 2002 by the way when I was making 70 grand and voted against that contract too) are specious and come clearly from Unity people who are the only ones in this union that seem concerned about what I do in retirement. I can't tell you all the encouragement they give me to put my feet up and relax - thanks guys. I must be doing something right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165553794439878222006-12-07T23:56:00.000-05:002006-12-07T23:56:00.000-05:00Science Sam Spade Good to see the Fat Man finally ...Science Sam Spade<BR/> Good to see the Fat Man finally sang. I'm working on a screenplay for "The Maltese Contract" where the femme fatale bamboozles Sam Spade into believing in the value of a contract smuggled in from the isle of BloomKlein, telling him that under a veneer of grime consisting of lunch duty, a longer day, loss of right to grieve, etc. there is enormous value. But Sam ultimately discovers after scraping away the grime and filth, that the Maltese contract is practically worthless.<BR/> Just joking about your long posts since mine are often longer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165541061165097002006-12-07T20:24:00.000-05:002006-12-07T20:24:00.000-05:00the last anon has it just right.the last anon has it just right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165528920010193012006-12-07T17:02:00.000-05:002006-12-07T17:02:00.000-05:00I think the previous anons are missing the point. ...I think the previous anons are missing the point. Our long term job security has eroded with the last contract. Everyone needs the money but it won't do us any good if Randi keeps getting us contracts that lose our rights. As a matter of fact, our LIS told us this week that 7 absences will result in a LIF and 10 will result in a U rating. In my 14 years of teaching, I've never heard of such a thing. You don't think I feel like I have a bigger bullseye on my back than some other newer teachers? I'm not sure what it all means in the end. Norm is "set" because of the protections he's had from the union during his tenure. It was irresponsible of our union to give up those basic protections. It looks like I'll have to jump through hoops of fire and jump over puddles of mud to get my retirement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165487021375112542006-12-07T05:23:00.000-05:002006-12-07T05:23:00.000-05:00hey Norm, You missed his point. You are set. We a...hey Norm, <BR/><BR/>You missed his point. You are set. We are not. We live in the real world where we work for a living and depend on our salaries. You get money from everywhere. You are like Sting going to the cattle farmers in Brazil and telling them not to destroy the rain forest, while he drives around in a huge Bentley. Or something like that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165465255236208482006-12-06T23:20:00.000-05:002006-12-06T23:20:00.000-05:00Just tell us that you don't receive one dime from ...Just tell us that you don't receive one dime from the union. Or that you are not in Unity. Only Unity people seem to address issues related to me, my pension, whether I have a job and my paper. I would bet any inheritance I get that you do not teach a full load and that you do not take care of your members. Tell you what, send me your name and address and I'll dip into my trust fund and send you a check.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165463565990364452006-12-06T22:52:00.000-05:002006-12-06T22:52:00.000-05:00Well said. Norm is not the person you need to pro...Well said. Norm is not the person you need to prove anything to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165403873153543462006-12-06T06:17:00.000-05:002006-12-06T06:17:00.000-05:00should have read, "you prove to me you have someth...should have read, <BR/><BR/>"you prove to me you have something to lose in case of a no vote"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165403699601904732006-12-06T06:14:00.000-05:002006-12-06T06:14:00.000-05:00I have to prove absolutely nothing! What I will t...I have to prove absolutely nothing! What I will tell you is that while your financial future is secured through your pension, your per-session work, your inheritance money, and whatever funds you receive from your garbage paper, my livelihood depends on the 24 checks I receive from the DOE. If those checks stop coming, or if they don't grow for years as it will be the case if we don't approve this contract, then I WILL HURT. You of course can get on the soap box and spread the word of an utopian world in which workers get only what they want and don't have to negotiate with the bosses/city/tax-payers, you can say the sky is falling and try to convince people that this is not a good contract, while my family and I will have to live with the reality and pay the consequences of a no vote. You my friend, don't have to go and leaflet, do campaigns in the schools, attend rallies, organize petition drives, take care of members, and still have to teach a full load of classes, while trying to be a good dad and husband. You are irresponsible. You prove to me that you have something to lose in case of a 'no' vote and then get back to your soap box and spread the word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165388454171388122006-12-06T02:00:00.000-05:002006-12-06T02:00:00.000-05:00Anon. You'll have to prove to us that you actuall...Anon.<BR/> You'll have to prove to us that you actually work in a school and will be hurt by my comments before we take anything you say seriously. <BR/><BR/>While there are people who work in schools who might crit. ICE for their stand on the contract, only Unity people who are on the union payroll and will get the raise seem to worry about whether Norm Scott - retiree - is commenting. <BR/><BR/>And teachers do not know or seem concerned that I worked for a region last year - you do need an update on your intelligence. That seems to be the concern of Unity hacks. My website does seem to get a lot of attention from people who work at the union and on union time, no less. <BR/><BR/>And talk about fear mongering -- there goes that old bagaboo strike talk again. Like you guys will ever give up your cushy salaries and let the members go on strike.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165373655587964012006-12-05T21:54:00.000-05:002006-12-05T21:54:00.000-05:00Eterno writes: ETRNO START Sam please read the sec...Eterno writes: <BR/><BR/>ETRNO START Sam please read the second comment on this board. <BR/><BR/>"There was a very short presentation and vote on the UFT contract last night (Monday, Nov. 27) at the PEP meeting. The DOE said that the contract contains two advantages for the DOE: the proposed severance pay to excessed teachers and the so called peer intervention services that will now be provided by non UFT people. The results can now be used for the dismissal hearings."<BR/><BR/>Klein calls this new Peer intervention a gain for management, but Sam still expects Klein to agree to truly independent peer evaluators.ETERNO END<BR/><BR/>You’re a funny guy, Eterno. Everyone else is spinning the truth. The union, according to you, spin, spin spin. But Klein? Oh no, Klein is a veritable font of truth! And you say I need to get skeptical! <BR/><BR/>PEP is a road show. He fired people who wouldn’t spin the spin, remember?Teacher Voiceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09359760490948953593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165370367718877632006-12-05T20:59:00.000-05:002006-12-05T20:59:00.000-05:00Why is Norm Scott commenting on anything on the co...Why is Norm Scott commenting on anything on the contract? Isn't he retired? If there were to be a strike, aside from losing his per-session gig at the district, will he suffer other financial losses like the rest of us? Will his pension check be cut? If we go years without a contract, will he suffer financially the way we will suffer? Then again, I believe in the right to express your opinions, but I think it's irresponsible for him to encourage people to vote no when his livelihood is not at stake. We'll pay the price. He will not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165366241936031962006-12-05T19:50:00.000-05:002006-12-05T19:50:00.000-05:00ICE opposed the contract last year and this year. ...ICE opposed the contract last year and this year. What's the difference? If ICE sits and just observes at meetings, you say they should have spoken up. If they argue at meetings, you call them obstructionists. You Unity people just want people to say yes to anything Randi says.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165365726402032962006-12-05T19:42:00.000-05:002006-12-05T19:42:00.000-05:00You sound just like mrvasquez on ICE mail- Lou- yo...You sound just like mrvasquez on ICE mail- Lou- you can use your name. Did you kick your dog today?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165365656973500252006-12-05T19:40:00.000-05:002006-12-05T19:40:00.000-05:00unitymustgo, You missed my point. What I was tryi...unitymustgo, <BR/><BR/>You missed my point. What I was trying to say is that you are the type who blames the union for everything and when it comes time for you to do something about it, you chicken out. You miss the point of belonging to a union. You have the tools, but you are scared. You expect others to do what you should be doing. So you want to encourage others to reject the contract and maybe go for a strike, and then you'll come up with some excuse why not to strike...like...we are not ready, this is another strategy of our union to get rid of our tenure, or...who knows what else you will come up with along with your buddies to blame the union leadership and not take ownership of the issues. Just like James Eterno has done troughout this whole process where he sat through countless meetings and now he is screaming foul play. Shame on you. However, at least you are not running for anything and have nothing to gain from whereas James is politically motivated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165316225874780162006-12-05T05:57:00.000-05:002006-12-05T05:57:00.000-05:00Unitymustgo, Maybe you should have enough courage ...Unitymustgo, <BR/><BR/>Maybe you should have enough courage to grieve the principal on the mass prep you were given. Typical of many of your kind, you are just talk. Blowing everything out of proportion, changing the facts, omitting the facts, and putting fear in people. It's funny that you are more willing to shove a ballot up "someone's -ss" (as you indicated in an earlier posting) than grieve your principal. Shame on you! I guess it's much easier to blame somebody else for your shortcomings. I hope you don't teach your kids to blame others and not accept responsibility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165290679941142042006-12-04T22:51:00.000-05:002006-12-04T22:51:00.000-05:00Sammy,Seniority is no longer an issue that Randi c...Sammy,<BR/><BR/>Seniority is no longer an issue that Randi could stand up and protect under this administration?<BR/><BR/>Shame on you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165285171998584502006-12-04T21:19:00.000-05:002006-12-04T21:19:00.000-05:00Why would I want to? I attend DA's and read the N...Why would I want to? I attend DA's and read the NY Teacher. Isn't that enough? Vote No like I will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165236290815364342006-12-04T07:44:00.001-05:002006-12-04T07:44:00.001-05:00oopswww.unitycaucus.orgoops<BR/>www.unitycaucus.orgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-1165236248499842402006-12-04T07:44:00.000-05:002006-12-04T07:44:00.000-05:00you should see some of the stuff they write on the...you should see some of the stuff they write on their siteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com