tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post532551902418159033..comments2024-03-07T15:25:26.971-05:00Comments on ICEUFT Blog: ICE REAFFIRMS SUPPORT FOR MORE-UFTJeff Kaufmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11728874415155394751noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-28467354092408005292015-07-20T10:07:10.547-04:002015-07-20T10:07:10.547-04:00Go ICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...Go ICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-59296478594014564872015-07-19T11:45:15.271-04:002015-07-19T11:45:15.271-04:00I think I am going to be sick after reading the la...I think I am going to be sick after reading the last post EEK! Portelos you not only wanted to be at the diner with all the More and ICE people you wanted to sit at the head of the table. When you didn't get your way your threw a hissy fit and cry like a baby. Yes it has been 30 years and we are still going strong. You are the other hand are self destructing with every post. It is quite enjoyable to watch. Why did you even come to the meeting? Us jealous of you really now that is a stretch. Who is the one chasing and blogging on every site. UMMM could it be you honey?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-29476357184026717662015-07-19T08:05:24.152-04:002015-07-19T08:05:24.152-04:00Hey, trust me, our cause is doing quite well despi...Hey, trust me, our cause is doing quite well despite lack of support from activists who have supposedly have "been doing this for over years."<br /><br />However, if I'm cut do I not bleed? I'm human. My wife caught wind of these comments and posts. <br /><br />"Why are they doing this to you?" <br /><br />"Because honey... (and I lean over to kiss her on her temple) they're probably jealous. After decades of fighting they still meet in the back of a diner."<br /><br />Francesco Porteloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03249197982072281997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-64168179012620899802015-07-19T01:05:59.232-04:002015-07-19T01:05:59.232-04:00Why? He is on every site looking for anything wri...Why? He is on every site looking for anything written negative or positive that is about him. It just gets to be too much. This behavior is not in keeping with a true leader. Why can't he stay away. Stick to his own cause. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-69605469668621334482015-07-18T21:25:06.632-04:002015-07-18T21:25:06.632-04:00Why?Why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-34095665501897624652015-07-18T18:56:40.218-04:002015-07-18T18:56:40.218-04:00Really Portelos ego is almost as big as Mulgrew an...Really Portelos ego is almost as big as Mulgrew and Randi. I was sway to believing in his cause at first but no longer. I have given up the Kool-Aid. I hope more will follow my lead. Portelos is bad news.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-11418143852787168792015-07-13T08:47:52.087-04:002015-07-13T08:47:52.087-04:00Never did that before Francesco. If people want to...Never did that before Francesco. If people want to say something, it's fine by me. I'd like to move on but if someone has something they feel should be added, this blog is fine with it. I really take a very open view of first amendment rights. I'm not going to say this is my blog so don't criticize me. Note we didn't take off one comment, even those that are quite critical of ICE. Unity attacks us here often. I can only remember taking down some profanity laced tirades by adults as kids have googled me and ended up here. We didn't want their impression of teachers to be that we were acting like children.James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-3000349587533656262015-07-13T07:33:31.346-04:002015-07-13T07:33:31.346-04:00James, just turn off comments on this post. It'...James, just turn off comments on this post. It's in the post settings. Obviously others are trying to stir the pot between Solidarity and MORE. It will help us move forward.<br /><br />http://blogtimenow.com/blogging/enable-disable-comments-blogger-pages-posts/Francesco Porteloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03249197982072281997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-43212489455134467612015-07-13T07:23:44.678-04:002015-07-13T07:23:44.678-04:00ICE certainly does not have a loyalty oath. Come ...ICE certainly does not have a loyalty oath. Come to a MORE meeting and watch the ICE people votes go all over the place. MORE doesn't have one either. Trying to move on but someone always keeps coming back to this discussion. James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-69957630327346556842015-07-12T19:47:25.165-04:002015-07-12T19:47:25.165-04:00Seems like MORE has their of own loyalty oath. I...Seems like MORE has their of own loyalty oath. I guess at some point a caucus must press upon its members to speak in a unified voice. Very interesting stuff. Seems Unity caucus like. I think I'll switch and go with Solidarity. Only problem with that I guess is it seems that Portelos requires the same loyalty oath. Is there a caucus out there that doesn't require these oaths written or unwritten?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-27461501081804067062015-07-10T21:22:01.341-04:002015-07-10T21:22:01.341-04:00I am just stating what MORE and ICE feel. If you ...I am just stating what MORE and ICE feel. If you don't think that is burning bridges, ok. I agree it's time to move on.James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-83211628778179732142015-07-10T17:07:21.914-04:002015-07-10T17:07:21.914-04:00Read the comments both here and at South Bronx Sch...Read the comments both here and at South Bronx School blog to see how many bridges have been burned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-60228015130208259262015-07-10T16:06:24.571-04:002015-07-10T16:06:24.571-04:00Right, as Paul says let's keep our focus on th...Right, as Paul says let's keep our focus on the real enemy here. Mr. Portelos did not go to Albany in 2010 and ask for a testing based evaluation system, say he would "kick in the dirt" anyone opposed to Common Core, shout down MORE members proposing an Opt Out resolution or roll over for Cuomo's anti teacher budget and call it a victory. That was Mulgrew and Unity, and they are the ones we need to focus on defeating. If you look at the platforms of MORE, New Action and Solidarity, they are in agreement on 90% of the issues. At a time when teachers are quitting in record numbers and universally fed up with the union's lack of leadership, that matters more than personality conflicts. As Harry Bridges who is quoted at the top of this blog once said, "I'd stand on the line with Satan himself if he was for the six hour work day." If MORE has someone better to run than Mulgrew (which should not be difficult since my cat would be better than Mulgrew,) someone everyone in opposition can get behind, let us know who that person is. Either way, let's stay focused on who is ruining this union and stay united in working out a plan to defeat Unity.Eric Seversonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16754735491280782896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-81197207447410269922015-07-10T15:58:46.876-04:002015-07-10T15:58:46.876-04:00Burned bridges? I believe I just built several oth...Burned bridges? I believe I just built several other ones to scout different terrain MORE wasn't reaching. As soon as I did MORE was like "NO REENTRY!"<br /><br />The same they would do if Change the Stakes, ISO or PL became a caucus. Let's face it, the group Don't Tread of Educators was fine. We were the member support group MORE voted to endorse, but as soon as the word caucus came out...game over.<br /><br />For MORE, there can be only one caucus as they stated at their chapter leader training yesterday.<br /><br />At UFT Solidarity we don't even use negative words like "opposition." Most of our members don't know who ICE/MORE is.<br /><br />Let's just move forward and do our own thing. Francesco Porteloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03249197982072281997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-53768028111957341632015-07-10T14:22:02.254-04:002015-07-10T14:22:02.254-04:00The analogy of Portelos to Churchill is more than ...The analogy of Portelos to Churchill is more than clunky. It does not hold up at all. In 1940 when Britain was not doing well in the first year of WWII, there was a vote of no confidence that Neville Chamberlain won but the opposition Labor Party would not support him and he knew Britain needed a unified government. Churchill was a choice from the established majority Conservative party who the minority could work with. Portelos has burned so many bridges that he would not be an acceptable choice for MORE or ICE. James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-85301827111153488112015-07-10T10:30:55.516-04:002015-07-10T10:30:55.516-04:00Norm.... ( and Eric: I agree w. Eric , btw. A lot ...Norm.... ( and Eric: I agree w. Eric , btw. A lot of this ..... not necessarily ALL ......is trivial stuff. And "trivial" is putting it generously, btw. And, more importantly it's MONUMENTAL distraction. Neither MORE or SC is the *problem*. Let's get on to addressing the *problem*.) <br /><br />I don't take ANYTHING that ANYONE says at face value. Hence the thought occurred to me that producing the tape in its entirety will settle ... or at lest cast light on... the question of who is/was genuinely serious about forming a united front.<br /><br />If ... as someone upthread says.... UFTSC said "Portelos is the presidential candidate; take it or leave it.", that is ONE thing. If ... as others have averred or implied in the thread .... SC reps were treated dismissively and/or contemptuously and MORE/ICE people were uninterested in any sort of dialogue... that is something else entirely.<br /><br />I DO understand that there are all sorts of problems associated w. putting a tape online .... the contents of which may contain comments, etc. made by people who were present but were speaking informally and under the assumption that they were at a 'private', informal gathering and speaking in that spirit ( i.e. privately and informally.) So if that's a large part of the tape question.... let's just move on. <br /><br />I defer to your infinitely greater knowledge re. the history and complexities of UFT minority caucuses. Some of this appears relevant to the current circumstance.... i.e. it provides historical context.... some not so much. <br /><br />Re. Mr. Portelos: He's an imperfect individual with ... paradoxically .... much to offer in the fight to turn the UFT back into an effective union for NYC school teachers and related school personnel. <br /><br />He pushes the envelope and has a tendency to "give better than he gets." We all know that.<br /><br />But how effective would he be otherwise? Churchill ( to indulge a somewhat clunky historical analogy) was a racist, an imperialist and an all around prick... excuse the vulgarity; but what would have happened to Europe... and the world...had "Mr. Nice Guy, Neville Chamberlain, remained Prime Minister during the WW II ? <br /><br />Something much, much worse, seems to me. Which is not to say that Portelos is Churchilian. Or that we are discussing here on ICEUFT the future of that planet and the human race. Just that you're probably not going to get very far with the people running this school system by playing according to some kind of country-club etiquette.<br /><br />But who would know that better than you?<br /><br />Back to our story: I once proposed to SC that it NOT run a candidate inn this election... and that it support MORE, instead. (JUST in the election.) It wasn't taken seriously, for whatever reason.<br /><br />Since MORE is ..... near as I can tell .....ambivalent or uncertain about running a candidate for Pres.......why NOT just vote for the SC candidate? To do so would imply nothing about one's more general feelings about the candidate ( i.e. Mr. Portelos). It would simply help to convey broad based opposition to the appalling leadership that has overseen... what.... 2/3 of teachers "turning over" in the last ten years or so?<br /><br />Not to mention the thousands of departed NYC teacher/unionists that are presently "turning over in their graves." <br /><br />Thx.<br /><br />Paul Hogan<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-86394133756154037892015-07-09T23:06:14.437-04:002015-07-09T23:06:14.437-04:00We need to stop bickering among ourselves and focu...We need to stop bickering among ourselves and focus on a plan to take the fight to Mulgrew/Unity. As long as the opposition caucuses and leaders are divided and squabbling Unity keeps its stranglehold on power and continues to sell out the rank and fileEric Seversonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16754735491280782896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-44605475729306827682015-07-09T08:07:59.143-04:002015-07-09T08:07:59.143-04:00Paul
No one at the meeting disagreed. Does anyone ...Paul<br />No one at the meeting disagreed. Does anyone have more integrity than Eterno? You think he made this up?<br />You've got a whole lot wrong here. And I have to say, after our numerous conversations, somewhat disappointed in that you seem to believe the Portelos line without questioning too deeply.<br />I called an ICE meeting to talk about a range of issues, including elections - the first meeting since my debate with Schirtzer. Portelos said he wanted to come to present his case. The majority voted not to allow him to attend but people pointed out that he would then go around whining (which he's done anyway). And that ICE has historically had open meetings. But no one more than Portelos in the past decade of ICE meetings has tried to use ICE's openness where people feel safe saying things, especially since at a previous meeting Portelos distorted things people said and then broadcast it on the internet. <br />So he was told he could have some time but had to leave. He protested that he was an ICE member - he is not - just on the listserve - in essence wanting to be part of the debate over his offer.<br />Since the diner has limited space I do a head count and asked for an RSVP = which people did --- but not surprising, he ignored that request and told 3 people from his caucus to show up = creating a very awkward situation since they came early = and we has to discuss other issues since Portelos was late. I admit I lost my cool in anger over his actions and took it out on them - I did apologize later -- but also felt he just used these people - no warning about what they were walking into - they had no idea it seems what ICE was -- mostly people working with MORE and a founding group of MORE. Some MORE members who have come to previous ICE meetings were also invited.<br />Why did I tape the meeting? Because I expected Portlos to tape it - Paul - you sat through his hearings - he taped everything = and felt he would use or misuse or edit the tape for his purposes. I taped it to protect ICE and if he did tape it and uses it then I would go back to the tape -- but right now that meeting is over and done with and we have more important things to do.<br />Fact is that after being exposed to Portelos close up I would say people in MORE and ICE pretty much unaimously want nothing to do with him == but he is so deparate that he never stops badgering both groups. This is not about a unified slate -- when New Action announces it is leaving Unity we can talk about that.<br />MORE is the unified slate out of a decade or more of multiple slates --- Portlos forming another caucus because he was um=nhappy with not getting his way in MORE created dis-unity = which is interesting since MORE supported his independent efforts in DTOE and the ATRS - but note that Portelos 2016 web site posted in May 2014 months before he left MORE -- everyone knew what he was doing and yet he remained on MORE steering even running again in July 2014 = and then created as much disruption as he could in that body of trust. <br />ANd he doesn't let MORE alone -- I say go in good health and organize your masses and show you have real support - and he wants us to do the scut election work for him.<br />That is why he wants a unified slate -- if he had the ability to do so himself he would do it. And that you buy his phony line is disappointing.<br />I am against putting a lot of effort into an election where there is so little to win but will put effort into aspects of the election that can be won = like the high school seats. MORE is the unified slate that ICE, TJC, GEM, NYCORE put together over years of meeting together to forge an alliance. The door is open to New Action to become part of that. it was open to Portelos too and because he is a spoiled brat who must get his way on every issue he cannot work in a group that he doesn't own. He is the divider, not the uniter. <br />We did that because multiple caucuses has never worked out in the past - and in fact New Action was a merger like MORE in 1995. I am not wiling to go backwards because Portelos needs attention.<br /><br />ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-53579840363617222522015-07-08T22:17:20.212-04:002015-07-08T22:17:20.212-04:00Portelos why don't you share the tape? You tap...Portelos why don't you share the tape? You tape everything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-52760398542940136372015-07-08T18:25:55.681-04:002015-07-08T18:25:55.681-04:006:08 pm, Yeah. Wouldn't you feel creeped out i...6:08 pm, Yeah. Wouldn't you feel creeped out in a meeting if your views were documented and put on the Internet for all to hear.<br /><br />This is people's idea for how to get more people mobilized?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-20704656938596576422015-07-08T18:18:54.909-04:002015-07-08T18:18:54.909-04:00To be used against the party being recorded.
Altho...To be used against the party being recorded.<br />Although it seems this time it worked the other way around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-67496787862355119562015-07-08T18:08:16.470-04:002015-07-08T18:08:16.470-04:00A question. Why on earth would you need to tape th...A question. Why on earth would you need to tape this meeting at all. If you are supposed to be building trust there shouldn't have been a need to tape. These folks seem to be very Nixonian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-32454403577512646712015-07-08T16:17:41.506-04:002015-07-08T16:17:41.506-04:00For what? Why don't you go fight with the Uni...For what? Why don't you go fight with the Unity guys? Your campaign is dividing us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-15123376933740301712015-07-08T15:57:16.980-04:002015-07-08T15:57:16.980-04:00Paul,
I agree 100%. To say its all meaningless an...Paul, <br />I agree 100%. To say its all meaningless and put up this kind of fight for coalition seems very disingenuous.Bronx ATRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08787717237141454628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-49062675929660056192015-07-08T15:49:18.144-04:002015-07-08T15:49:18.144-04:00Don't be a Zucker, Vote Portelos!Don't be a Zucker, Vote Portelos!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com