tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post7187631070139133201..comments2024-03-07T15:25:26.971-05:00Comments on ICEUFT Blog: TIME TO MOVE ON FROM OPTING OUT OF UFT ARGUMENTJeff Kaufmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11728874415155394751noreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-13794203671992577212021-05-18T16:46:11.260-04:002021-05-18T16:46:11.260-04:00From Shelley:
Dear James,
Please put this up on y...From Shelley:<br /><br />Dear James,<br />Please put this up on your blog.<br /><br />This is my last post to your blog.<br /><br />As I said, in a post you censored, I am not at all comfortable with your<br />making me the poster child of the opt-out or "mass defections" strategy.<br /><br />I don't know what to do about the problems we face. There is no easy solution, and yet, like you, I have hope.<br /><br />Peace,<br /><br />Rise, like lions after slumber<br />In unvanquishable number!<br />Shake your chains to earth like dew<br />Which in sleep had fallen on you:<br />Ye are many—they are few!"<br /><br />--ShelleyJames Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-71257609886430573912021-05-17T15:46:55.010-04:002021-05-17T15:46:55.010-04:00Can I get an AMEN?Can I get an AMEN?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-62679400901070548982021-05-17T15:41:52.063-04:002021-05-17T15:41:52.063-04:00From the original post:
Based on the many comment...From the original post:<br /><br />Based on the many comments we received today, I think there might be a consensus that nobody is convincing anyone to either opt-out of paying UFT dues or not opt-out. Therefore, it is time to close the debate. We are just wasting everyone's time with repetitive arguments and comments.<br /><br />I'm ready. We have all had our say and it's time to move on.James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-60437076012805787972021-05-17T15:34:22.372-04:002021-05-17T15:34:22.372-04:00Opt-outers can't answer questions that are ask...Opt-outers can't answer questions that are asked of them and offer no alternatives, but we should listen to them. I think you are disgruntled anti-union folks who hate that we have a union, even a shitty one. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-35028279858942873312021-05-17T15:21:45.445-04:002021-05-17T15:21:45.445-04:00Ha ha ha ha. @2:03 pm...you made my day. I agree w...Ha ha ha ha. @2:03 pm...you made my day. I agree with you--to a degree. It is horrible when people don't do what they are supposed to do. waitingforsupporthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07390407586885648546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-23018094427341281942021-05-17T15:06:50.874-04:002021-05-17T15:06:50.874-04:00Agree with 203. James' argument has no more v...Agree with 203. James' argument has no more validity than the opt out argument. Actually James has been proven wrong over the last 30 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-14426140241530938872021-05-17T14:03:13.060-04:002021-05-17T14:03:13.060-04:00Can we on the opt out side at least stop acting li...Can we on the opt out side at least stop acting like James hasn’t explained his rationale a million times. James has hope someone or something will will unite teachers who will then rise up and demand more. We may not agree. We may think nothing will change but to ask him to explain himself over and over is unnecessary. Mocking him, insulting him....someone who has worked on behalf of us for decades is wrong. <br /><br />I don’t know if Shelly has an answer to then what? I don’t. I’m not interested in trying to mobilize nyc teachers because I think 90% of them wouldn’t fight back if administrators or union leaders were literally repeatedly punching them in the face and dragging them to the roof to be set on fire. I’m content to just no longer fund the UFT myself. I’m not willingly paying people who abuse me. Stay or go. Your choice. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-4943742129901260492021-05-17T14:01:39.915-04:002021-05-17T14:01:39.915-04:00Shelley,
Your method of mass defections has neve...Shelley, <br /><br />Your method of mass defections has never worked, ever, not once but if you want to organize it, go right ahead. Starting a blog isn't that difficult. You have a First Amendment right to do so.<br /><br />We talked about a dues strike in 2020 after Mulgrew sent people into buildings the UFT knew were infected with COVID. When I asked how many were willing to do a dues strike collectively so we could pool the money to protect each other (a sort of alternative union) and put collective pressure on Unity to reform, one person responded and that person informed me that he got zero support for the idea in his school. <br /><br />I am less naive than you think and not irresponsible.<br /><br />We have exhausted this debate for a long time. Unless someone has something new to add, time to move ahead.<br /><br />Pro union- anti-Unity Caucus.James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-83732423705036166132021-05-17T13:24:46.329-04:002021-05-17T13:24:46.329-04:00931. Organize fellow employees to vote against Uni...931. Organize fellow employees to vote against Unity. Argue to district reps, to your chapter leaders. Give em hell. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-33505897353241092172021-05-17T13:23:23.848-04:002021-05-17T13:23:23.848-04:00914. Our union is neither progressive, nor "l...914. Our union is neither progressive, nor "left." It is center right at most. It is a wing of the DOE on one side, and a useful tool of our private business sector on another. They do not arbitrate, or fight, for us. They dole out what those two interests want from us DOE employees. That is what Unity has turned the union into. The fight is not against a union, but against the powers that shape the union. We have to change that. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-14495412439516305162021-05-17T13:17:46.050-04:002021-05-17T13:17:46.050-04:00105, and if we keep paying, then what? There has t...105, and if we keep paying, then what? There has to be an answer. Unless you are good with the dtatis quo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-57401968682741664962021-05-17T13:09:32.305-04:002021-05-17T13:09:32.305-04:00James, if we don't accept Rosenfeld's theo...James, if we don't accept Rosenfeld's theory, what has 100% membership gotten us? The 2005 and 2014 contract? You, constantly, in every post, telling us how bad the uft is? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-33459729654725894962021-05-17T13:05:27.373-04:002021-05-17T13:05:27.373-04:00So what is your method, Shelly? If we stop paying ...So what is your method, Shelly? If we stop paying then what? There has to be a then what?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-15671394666430013552021-05-17T12:57:36.832-04:002021-05-17T12:57:36.832-04:00James would rather keep banging his head against a...James would rather keep banging his head against a brick wall. Maybe after 2022 when mulgrew gets 86% again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-56206868083292775252021-05-17T12:51:24.429-04:002021-05-17T12:51:24.429-04:00So we’re back to name calling. I’m a scab. You’re ...So we’re back to name calling. I’m a scab. You’re a sucker. Now what? It’s not about the money. I’d pay 2x union dues if we had a strong union. Agree with Shelly yet again. Outdated thinking. Let’s put a pause on the conversation. Come back in 5 years and see if spineless groveling teachers have grown a backbone and are ready to demand more. My bet is no. I’ll have withheld about 8k in dues by then. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-64711090660220141022021-05-17T12:36:41.395-04:002021-05-17T12:36:41.395-04:00James, how long do you want to try your approach? ...James, how long do you want to try your approach? Simple question.Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-36716739565160862022021-05-17T12:24:49.778-04:002021-05-17T12:24:49.778-04:00amen shelly!!
I am as pro union as the old fossil...amen shelly!!<br /><br />I am as pro union as the old fossil ed notes guy but look around everyone, the uft is not a union. you might think it is but its not. <br /><br />strike against the uft, withhold your dues for 2 years. I started last year and used the money I saved to buy a new door to hit me on the ass on my way out. im not out of the union forever because I believe in the importance of worker protection. our union does nothing but erode the accomplishments made from the 60's-early 90's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-28163209705393793122021-05-17T12:05:55.500-04:002021-05-17T12:05:55.500-04:00Big membership and big money doesn't make a un...Big membership and big money doesn't make a union strong. <br /><br />In our union it makes us weaker. <br /><br />The AFT and Unity keep adding members and money and then using that leverage to dismantle all the great things that unions did for us while maintaining a monopoly on power and control. <br /><br />The members are weakened, both in the power they have as "democratic" members and in what they get for being members. <br /><br />This needs to stop.<br /><br />How do we do it? <br /><br />Elections? Please. We don't have a snow balls chance in hell of defeating Unity. <br /><br />So now what? <br /><br />James, you are very naïve and idealistic about all this and that's fine for a blogger but please don't insult us by insisting that we are anti-union because we see your reforms as a waste of time. <br /><br />We want change too. <br /><br />It's a matter of methods. <br /><br />Shelleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-37572750018022330492021-05-17T11:52:57.512-04:002021-05-17T11:52:57.512-04:00@1246 am... so you're saying 30 years of exper...@1246 am... so you're saying 30 years of experiencing a deterioration of your rights can make anyone upset. Insightful waitingforsupporthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07390407586885648546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-30559051475693530952021-05-17T11:45:18.597-04:002021-05-17T11:45:18.597-04:00Shelley, If we accept Rosenfeld's thesis, how ...Shelley, If we accept Rosenfeld's thesis, how is the solution to have even weaker unions with fewer members?James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-56735025609382417362021-05-17T11:37:06.091-04:002021-05-17T11:37:06.091-04:00Clarification Shelley, The members could become mi...Clarification Shelley, The members could become militant as they have done in Chicago and Los Angeles with different leadership. That is what we need in NYC, not a bunch of individuals opting out. James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-61061757645965188942021-05-17T11:34:02.739-04:002021-05-17T11:34:02.739-04:00Lol. Scabs are getting the same as you without pay...Lol. Scabs are getting the same as you without paying. Who is the joke on? As much as James pushed paying, he can't find one positive thing to write about. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-87641419590829391252021-05-17T11:32:03.657-04:002021-05-17T11:32:03.657-04:00Norm,
Your view of unions, like James's, is...Norm, <br /><br />Your view of unions, like James's, is very dated. You can't continue to defend most current unions, especially public service unions, teacher unions, with what unions did because what unions once did they don't do no more. <br /><br />see _What Unions No Longer_<br />by Jake Rosenfeld <br /><br /><br />And, what Unions do now is dismantle what unions did. <br /><br />And they do it with the dues we pay them. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> Shelleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-45402811444787698542021-05-17T11:18:51.715-04:002021-05-17T11:18:51.715-04:00To the tune of goodnight Irene:
Good night freelo...To the tune of goodnight Irene:<br /><br />Good night freeloaders, we hate to see you go, <br /><br />Good night freeloaders,<br /><br />We'll see you in our dreams.<br /><br />(Maybe change last word to nightmares.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-25886462938283570032021-05-17T11:17:02.140-04:002021-05-17T11:17:02.140-04:00Totally agree, time to move on.Totally agree, time to move on.Michael Gattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03439084701518904958noreply@blogger.com