tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post9112093870201880193..comments2024-03-07T15:25:26.971-05:00Comments on ICEUFT Blog: UFT CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES NOTHING BUT A POWER GRAB BY UNITYJeff Kaufmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11728874415155394751noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-62518705189178751952012-01-14T15:12:51.756-05:002012-01-14T15:12:51.756-05:00I was not putting you down by asking who you are. ...I was not putting you down by asking who you are. Your points are right on the money. You obviously know a lot of insider stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-2918447678620104092012-01-13T20:04:30.505-05:002012-01-13T20:04:30.505-05:00What is your affiliation?
homosapeinWhat is your affiliation?<br /><br />homosapeinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-15162478697722929292012-01-13T17:38:16.819-05:002012-01-13T17:38:16.819-05:00What is your affiliation?What is your affiliation?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-58193901288211615292012-01-12T12:59:40.054-05:002012-01-12T12:59:40.054-05:00Norm, you missed my point. I did not say they were...Norm, you missed my point. I did not say they were democratic. I said their "practice" comes from "democratic centralism," which as far as I'm concerned is not democratic. Besides, democratic centralism has nothing to do with the UFT DA at large. You are confusing the Unity Caucus version of "democratic centralism" with the UFT DA. <br /><br />Additionally, as much as you, I and other ed activists would embrace open debate at the DA, it would be impossible to do with the current structure of the DA. You would need real working committees and not the de facto Unity committees that are in place now.<br /><br />What is true is that internally Unity does not have open debates at their caucus meetings. SO yes in that way they are pretending to be "democratic centralist." It sounds like I am contradicting myself. Let me explain. They took the most powerful and undemocratic part of "democratic centralism" and tossed the rest out. We are the leaders. Do what we say. Sign our pledge. Do not go against us. We will reward you down the road. We know best. <br /><br />It's the leadership/vanguard who call the shots regardless if there is debate or not...same outcome.<br /><br />In theory, democratic centralism allows for recall, but how does that actually work when you throw people, power and politics into the pot? How has it worked out from a historical perspective? <br /><br />It's the leadership's way or the highway. Same thing in the Unity led UFT.<br /><br />"But in the UFT the leadership can go through democratic motions and manipulate things to get the result they wanted." I AGREE WITH YOU 100% Just reread your response. Everything after this quote is right on too. Except the CTU. Wait and see. Will CTU support Obama?<br /><br />Boy oh boy. What a world! One last thing. To their credit, leninists and trots are terrific activists and very, very patient. Very patient Norm. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for some of the leninist/trot meetings with the teachers who are also CTU. You have no idea Norm. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-58259867007023443512012-01-12T09:01:02.896-05:002012-01-12T09:01:02.896-05:00You are wrong about Unity - it is not democratic -...You are wrong about Unity - it is not democratic - if it were run by democratic centralism I might have even joined because internally that is a democratic process and issues could at least be hashed out. But Unity is as top-down as the union.<br /><br />Even if we had democratic centralism in the UFT where we could engage in open debate on policy and evolve posiitions I think people could live with it. Take mayoral control. Do you htink if we had a vote the members would support it? But in the UFT the leadership can go through democratic motions and manipulate things to get the result they wanted.<br /><br />What I will say about CTU is that the key is CORE - the caucus that runs the CTU. CORE/CTU has some people associated with parties on the left and I raised this with people and so far they have functioned completely in a democratic manner.<br /><br />I've been involved with CORE people since their beginning and have watched worried about the democratic issues you raise. What is Karen Lewis' relationship to CORE? Does it have the right internally to be critical of her? And I believe it has and has been and even forced the leadership to change directions at times. In the UFT there is no internal debate other than amongst the very top leadership -- not at Exec Bd meetings or DA's or even Unity caucus.<br /><br />Now for us - and you possibly - the need here in NYC is to build a caucus that is democratic from the ground up and remains that way. ICE was founded on that principal -- the reason the word Independent is in the name. But we may have gone too far in the sense that anyone in ICE could do whatever they wanted and as a caucus all kinds of mixed signals are sent out. So there needs to be some level of internal controls - but as long as decisions are made democratically.<br /><br />I know trots and socialists have been involved -- they always will be. And generally do good work. My concern is that when one party or group meets on its own and comes up with a position and then sends its people into a group en masse that position can dominate since they all vote together -- like the Hasidic. So it is very important to keep an eye on that and struggle internally when you disagree and if a group that includes all kinds of people (don't forget there are goodness knows how many trot orgs out there who don't agree with each other) drifts towards an undemocratic direction pull it back.<br /><br />Given that Unity is anti-communist from day 1, Shanker used that to keep any voice - trot or socialist - out of the halls of power -- thus the need to control 100% of the Exec Bd -- which by the way does have some people from New Action of left background -- but they serve at the pleasure of UNity. <br /><br />Randi's big change from Shanker/Feldman was buying these people off ---and old line anti-communist Unity people are still upset.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-28052681172423096712012-01-12T06:09:12.348-05:002012-01-12T06:09:12.348-05:00Anon 9:52
Of course UNITY is the problem. They ma...Anon 9:52<br /><br />Of course UNITY is the problem. They make me sick. What smoke screens? Who said the communists would take over? I made a simple, but accurate claim: "Thank Shanker..." There is a long history behind Mulgrew's actions.<br /><br />Perhaps a better question for me to raise is this: What do we ed activists mean when we say, we need to "democratize" our union? And, wait, before that is answered, how might our ideas about democracy make it difficult to run an organization as large as the UFT. In short, there are very strong reasons for why Unity is run the way it is run (DA, Exec Board, Pledges, NYTeacher). I can't stand Unity and their practices. But please tell me how those practices will not be replicated by any other group (practices not philosophy) should they take over? <br /><br />I don't know. That's why I ask.<br /><br />Please don't respond with Karen Lewis and CTU. The CTU is tiny compared to the UFT. And when push comes to shove, Karen and our brothers and sisters in Chicago will be crushed by today's ruling class if they muster the courage to seriously challenge the city/state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-62000574648043455402012-01-11T21:52:22.625-05:002012-01-11T21:52:22.625-05:00Be that as it may. . .
As far as I can discern, t...Be that as it may. . .<br /><br />As far as I can discern, the DA -- and our union -- are in NO danger of being taken over by communists of ANY stripe.<br /><br />Your comments and elaborations serve only as a smoke screen to keep people from focusing on what is likely to happen to us and our union, and what forces are ACTUALLY BEHIND the proposed egregious changes, i.e.:<br /><br />U ndemocratic<br />N asty<br />I diotic<br />T houghtless<br />Y ada, yada, yada!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-20242276918401734352012-01-11T19:17:53.463-05:002012-01-11T19:17:53.463-05:00Anon 4:21
You are absolutely correct. Please rere...Anon 4:21<br /><br />You are absolutely correct. Please reread what I wrote. Unity's practices of control and voting are grounded in democratic centralism. That's a fact. They are however anti-communist. <br /><br />Put another way, if the trots controlled the UFT, regardless if I preferred their philosophy to that of Unity, the da would not be run democratically in the manner that people usually scream about when they yell, hey that's undemocratic.<br /><br />Tow the line. Feel free to dissent within the party. But follow the party line in public...in voting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-73006742281046095812012-01-11T16:21:56.314-05:002012-01-11T16:21:56.314-05:00I don't know of a single "Leninist" ...I don't know of a single "Leninist" or "Trot" who was instrumental in developing this ridiculously undemocratic resolution. Let's be clear about where the blame belongs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-85233040348471520302012-01-11T00:15:16.313-05:002012-01-11T00:15:16.313-05:00Don't thank Mulgrew. Thank Shanker and the ant...Don't thank Mulgrew. Thank Shanker and the anti-democratic practices of the leninists and trots. Every time I hear a leninist and trot scream about unity, I have to laugh because their organizations have the same practices. Democratic centralism. Different philosophy. Same practice. And I know that James is not a Leninist or trot.<br /><br />Great post James.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-22909846290736866902012-01-10T23:13:52.772-05:002012-01-10T23:13:52.772-05:00Looks like Mulgrew has been watching "The Bor...Looks like Mulgrew has been watching "The Borgias" and learning a lot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15921757.post-21847314880221369712012-01-10T21:48:51.476-05:002012-01-10T21:48:51.476-05:00James, thank you for this article. It is clear an...James, thank you for this article. It is clear and concise. I certainly learned much more about the workings of unity. I will be voting no against these constitutional changes.<br />Pat D.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com