I was reading in the Village Voice today about Governor Cuomo's "free" college tuition program. The Excelsior scholarships are filled with traps. Students must work in New York State for four years after graduation or their grant turns into a loan. In addition, pupils must graduate on time or they may owe the money back to the state.
From the Voice article:
Another provision demands that students maintain the minimum GPA required by their schools to remain in good academic standing, and that they graduate on time. Asked whether students will be responsible for repaying tuition from prior years if their GPA drops below the minimum, the governor's office said it would be handled on a case-by-case basis.
The graduation requirement alone would make most students ineligible for Excelsior scholarships. On-time graduation rates at CUNY community colleges have remained consistently below 10 percent since at least 2005. The four-year graduation rate at SUNY schools is 48.9 percent according to the most recent data available, higher than the national average. The governor's office says the requirement is intended to incentivize on-time graduation: If finishing your degree on time means free college, the thinking goes, those rates will improve.
We understand that many community college students work and go part time to college so they need longer than two years to get a degree. Some would attend school full time and benefit from the Cuomo program. But no, most students do not drop out or take longer than two or four years to obtain a degree because they have to work to pay for college. Many do not finish because they are not prepared for higher education.
On time community college graduation rates under 10% do not surprise me in the least. Those numbers are not a knock on the community colleges who are maintaining some academic standards.
How far below 10% are the graduation rates at the CUNY community colleges?
Here is part of Susan Edelman's piece from 2015 in the NY Post:
Overall, just 4.1 percent of first-time enrollees at CUNY’s six community college students snag a diploma in two years, the latest available data show. About 16 percent graduate in three years, and 23.5 percent get a degree in four years, similar to peers nationwide. Many drop out.
Hostos Community College in the South Bronx posts the city’s lowest two-year graduation rate — a pathetic 1.4 percent.
Obviously, most of the students graduating from the Joel Klein, Cathy Black, Dennis Walcott and Carmen Farina New York City diploma mills, otherwise known as many of our high schools, are not ready for the next level. Pushing kids through high school, while expecting nothing of them, has consequences that show up in college statistics. Each one of those statistics is a person who was handed a high school diploma by the NYC Department of Education. What does that diploma mean in 2017?
Next time you see Mayor Bill de Blasio or Chancellor Farina touting some rise in the New York City high school graduation rate, just ask why there has been no corresponding increase in the community college graduation rate? If they answer that it's CUNY's fault and they call for mayoral control of CUNY, just run for the hills.
If the government politicizes college graduation, as they have with high schools, this society could be in real trouble.
As an ATR, many kids, I come across that are about to graduate high school, can barely read or write. They can't do simple math either. They will all be placed in remedial classes in college. There is no way any of them will graduate on time. Giving away diplomas help statistics, but severely hurts NYC public students.
ReplyDeleteAgree 100%.
ReplyDeleteAs long as the graduation rate goes up by any means Mulgrew and Fariña will be happy.
ReplyDeleteOnly teachers are sad
ReplyDeletePersistence rates at community and four-year colleges are lower for many students of color and lower socio-economic status for many reasons, including, of course academic preparation in high school.
ReplyDeletePost-secondary persistence rates are lower because:
1. Many high school students are not "college ready" and need to take remediation courses in math and English that do not provide college credit and which must be paid for by the students, themselves.
2. Many new college students are first-generation college attenders in their families and communities and have not had the support, emotional-cultural preparation that other students have which allows them to adjust to the academic expectations and new life experiences that college students of any sort run up against.
3. State TAP and HEOP programs do not pay for transportation, food and books for new college attendees who will struggle to pay for any of this while going to school full-time--which is why so few community college and commuter students at four year colleges attend part time or take up to six years to graduate.
4. Most colleges do not even attempt to provide comprehensive counseling and non-academic support programs to identify early the most struggling students and help them through the stressful post high-school years.
5. Many students help support their families and need to work while they go to college.
6. Persistence rates are lower even for high-performing high school students (good grades and ACT/SAT test scores). The challenges for students of color and first-in-family attenders are just as difficult to manage and surmount at private or high-status four year colleges as they are at community colleges for students who may have been pushed into college out of "graduation mill" high school.
So, overall, the problems connected with college persistence and graduation are very complex, often have little to do with tuition payment programs and affect most students, not just those who are not academically as well-prepared by their high schools for college. It is not a problem that can be explained by lack of preparation in City high schools or "fixed" by the Excelsior or any other tuition reduction program.
The tuition should just be free. It's not right to ask young people, who have little life experience, to make these types of financial and life decisions.
ReplyDeleteI’m not a fan of Cuomo, but let’s get real, this will help some people. As a student I fit every requirement you listed and as an adult I lived every after school requirement.
ReplyDeleteI’m not exactly sure how this money would be spent when I got TAP (which goes down every year), but I also got grants from outside sources. Even with that, it was very difficult for me to find enough money to go to a SUNY for four years, and that includes getting loans (and SUNY was much cheaper, back in the day).
This deal would have been great, even if it saved me hundreds a year, not even thousands. That little difference would have reduced my debt after college. It would’ve made it easier for me to pay for/get loans for grad school and also survive on my beginning pay as a NYC teacher.
Not every NYC kid is undereducated and set up to fail. There are plenty, like me, who just needed help. As a graduate of NYC public schools and now as a teacher of NYC public school students, I find it insulting that people forget about the middle class.
Yes college should be free and how about an apartment or house, free medical, free car, free everything. Don't worry the suckers that actually work and pay taxes will pay for everything. Thanks to Cuomo It will probably make sense for my wife to quit her job. i don't know how that helps the state or society as the federal and state govts will collect less taxes from us but now we will qualify for the free college tuition. That's a great law that punishes those who want and can work.
ReplyDeletePublic college should be free for students. I've paid taxes for many years and will hopefully be alive to pay for many more. The students who graduate will pay as well.
ReplyDeleteFree is not free, somebody has to pay. This is another example of welfare, plenty of underserving free riders...
ReplyDeleteSo who do you consider "non free riders" @ 10:29 pm? Please share who you think is deserving of this "free education".
ReplyDeleteWhites only
ReplyDeleteThat previous comment was useless of course...Anyway, there are many people who know how to game the system, would rather live off of welfare than get a $10 an hour job, would rather sit on the couch, watch Jerry Springer, never work, and spend their life that way. This seems similar, as stated, free means taxpayers pay, which makes it free only for some, and makes people who actually pay taxes, pay for these freebies. Those with the lowest incomes, see our students, seem to have the most expensive goods. If I see a house thats 1 million dollars, i say thats too expensive and move on to the next one. So, welfare recipients shouldnt have a $800 iphone, they should have a used flip phone, etc...If they want more, get a job, earn it, pay for it, dont have taxpayers fund your material goods.
ReplyDeleteHow is going to college sitting on the couch gaming the system? Having a generation in debt is not working. Make it free like CUNY was for decades. The world survived.
ReplyDeleteBy 11 am's logic, we should pay for high school too.
ReplyDeleteIf it is actually taken seriously, fine. Do students who are in HS take it seriously? Of course not, thats why the numbers are so abysmal. I think we've gone a little too far with all the handouts, and the labor participation rate is at an all time low, better off not working in many cases, and thats the never ending attitude.
ReplyDeleteSociety is older now. Might the aging population have something to do with the lower labor participation rate? No, it is those welfare queens.
ReplyDeleteOlder, that explains the failing school system with 30 percent college ready and the reason every school is a hang out, party, with no work going on
ReplyDeleteAnd free grades everywhere ?
Im saying if students go to college to do nothing that taxpayers pay for like we pay for public school its a huge waste.
ReplyDeleteOh well, just like our union doesn't take your opinion/needs into account neither does the governor--free tuition is here folks. Welfare, lazy, and every other name spewed by some of these ahem educators on this blog doesn't mean a thing because it's free tuition for all. I love it!
ReplyDeleteBy that thinking public schools are a waste of money too. You should resign to save the taxpayers some money. After all, you concede the students are a bunch of freeloaders.
ReplyDeleteMost...
ReplyDelete@ 7:28pm you seem to know so much about "gaming the system" seems like you're speaking from experience.
ReplyDeleteNah, not a welfare recipient or a career criminal,thats the crowd. I also dont wish death on the police.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Why not quit if kids are a bunch of idle slackers? You are aiding and abetting them by showing up for work and stealing the taxpayer's money
ReplyDeleteNah, i actually graduated high school on time, never got suspended, got a college degree, which i paid for, and a masters plus 30, which i also paid for. Dont get me wrong, i hate my job, but unfortuntely, at least for now, this is my career.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Why not quit if kids are a bunch of idle slackers? You are aiding and abetting them by showing up for work and stealing the taxpayer's money
ReplyDeleteHow come this is never brought up? Everybody is racist? Everybody is anti muslim? ACTUALLY...
ReplyDeleteAnti-Semitic graffiti was the top subway hate crime investigated this year, according to the NYPD Transit Bureau.
In a report to the MTA board, Transit Bureau Assistant Chief Vincent Coogan said 22 of 31 hate crimes that happened in the subway targeted Jews, mainly through graffiti.
Last year, over the same period, only seven bias crimes total in the subway were reported.
But this year, a rash of swastikas and comments that advocate the killing of Jews have been spotted on train cars and in stations.
OK you are right. Now what?
DeleteJust showing the double standard. Seems the mayor and others like to call out things only in the interest of blacks and muslims.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is a victim. We salute you.
ReplyDeletePlease say that next time an 'unarmed" black criminal gets shot by a cop.
ReplyDelete2:225 We're not the enemy, hate and greed is. Stop separating yourself.
ReplyDeleteThis is why leftist politicians don't win. Not enough people trust each other to look out for each other. Instead, most voters look to the "strong man" or Strong woman" that they can id with.
We the People must learn to look to each other.
I don't see the issue. It's not unreasonable to ask people getting a free education to do so in a timely manner nor it is unreasonable to require they work in NY. That's kind of the point isn't it? Nothing is truly free. And while it may not help those in the diploma mill schools it will help those who maybe are not valedictorian or in the top 10, but are good students overall who have no means to pay for it.
ReplyDeleteThis is just a band-aid. College costs are horrendous and real effort needs to address the overwhelming debt that young people are burdened with at the beginning of their adult lives. Many of us know young people or are ourselves young people in this predicament.
ReplyDelete