Thursday, February 17, 2022

CAMILLE CALLS FOR EQUAL TIME FOR OPPOSITION AT DA BUT IS REBUFFED BY BULLYING ONE SIDED DEBATE

I did not do a report for the February Delegate Assembly because Camille went to the DA live so I was with our two kids and of course, their needs come first. I was not able to listen to the DA but Camille told me what happened.*

After Michael Mulgrew was blabbering for almost an hour in his monthly misuse of the chair, where he basically speaks on most issues that could come before the DA (mayoral control, retiree healthcare, etc.), Camille raised a point of order noting that strictly speaking there are no officer reports in Robert's Rules so what gives him the right to filibuster every month and not allow a minority report? She cited Robert's Rules (page 476) but Mulgrew didn't fully listen and cut her off. Mulgrew responded that Camille was out of order because the Delegates make up the agenda. What? That answer was a huge head-scratcher. I was an Executive Board member, Delegate and Chapter Leader for 23 years and we didn't get to look over the agenda and approve it. When Camille and someone appealed, Mulgrew let only his cronies speak in the ensuing debate, including Staff Director Leroy Barr and Assistant Secretary Mike Sill. Camille had her microphone shut off even though she was demanding her right to speak. A man and a woman surrounded her to take the mic away. That's a real fair debate! Maybe not.

For Robert's Rules experts out there, let us go back to the 16th Century when the parliamentary principle was established of a speaker in favor of something followed by a speaker opposed. It is on page xxxiv of Robert's Rules: "Alternation of the floor between opposite points of view when assigning the floor: 1592. It was made a rule, That the Chairman shall ask the Parties that would speak... and the Party that speaketh against the last Speaker is to be heard first." It's on page 29 of Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised for modern times on how to alternate when assigning the floor.

For those who are not familiar with how the UFT operates at its monthly Delegate meetings, Camille was prepared to tell them how unfair it is but she didn't get the chance. In fact, nobody on her side ever got the opportunity to speak in the debate. Camille wanted to bring it to the DA and let the Delegates decide if the monthly meetings adhere to basic parliamentary principles of fairness. This is most of what she would have said.

Robert’s Rules states in the Introduction that Henry Robert based his rules of order on the United States House of Representatives and they were then adapted to other bodies such as labor unions, corporations, church groups, co-op boards, etc. because some congressional rules could not be applied to different kinds of democratic assemblies. The congressional principle of fairness for both the majority and minority was a main priority of Henry Robert. 

Let’s compare the DA to the U.S. House of Representatives: Imagine a Congress where there was an hour and 45 minute session and Speaker Nancy Pelosi spoke from the speaker’s chair for an hour on virtually every major issue that could come before the House, and then had her assistant Steny Hoyer speak for a few minutes, and next up Speaker Pelosi took questions mostly from members of her own party for 15 minutes and then in the very short time when House Resolutions were up for debate, Pelosi called on members of her own staff who were on the Speaker's payroll as well as being Congressmen and women. Would you call that a fair system? That’s what we have at the DA basically. It's much closer to a one-party state that glorifies its leader than a democratic assembly.

It is called parliamentary law because it is based on the British House of Commons. We have been to the House of Commons and you can watch it in the USA on television. Every time someone from the government speaks, the opposition is then allowed to give their view. Even though the Conservatives have a huge 95 seat majority, questions are asked in rotating order between the majority party and the opposition parties. All reports, debates, and question periods follow this format. Conservative Prime Minister Boris Johnson cannot speak for an hour without opposition Labour leader Kier Starmer getting equal time. The speaker is completely impartial in the House of Commons (and in the US when she is presiding from the speaker's chair).

Robert’s Rules specifically says that the chair must be impartial but at the DA, the president gives a marathon report where he is obviously partisan on virtually all of the issues that the union faces and then he answers questions often from members of his own caucus so he pontificates some more. This deliberative body which had a great history in the 1960s under Charles Cogen and Al Shanker, when there were real debates, has been reduced to listening to a chair abuse his authority by endlessly filibustering and relegating debate to often symbolic resolutions for a few short minutes at the end of each session and then usually with the president calling on members of his own caucus. The UFT needs basic fairness of equal time for the majority and the opposition. Robert's Rules says the president should say the least, not the most. The UFT runs its business in a way that Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong Un could recognize as opposed to Jeffersonian democracy. 

That was a major part of Camille's argument. For those thinking Leroy Barr was right in his defense that this is how it has always been done so it is correct, I submit to you page 19 of Robert's Rules which Camille also had ready:

“...If a customary practice is or becomes in conflict with the parliamentary authority or any written rule, and a point of order citing the conflict is raised at any time, the custom falls to the ground, and the conflicting provision in the parliamentary authority or written rule must thereafter be complied with.” 

The basic parliamentary principle violated for years at the DA is equal time for Unity and the opposition. The opposition is not going to get that time back if it does not demand it and fight for it.

I may need a break after this. I am not a violent man and wouldn't threaten physical harm on anyone. That said, I might not be quiet if I ever meet any of the people that abused my wife's position as the leader of the opposition yesterday.


*Here is a link to a Unity supporter's minutes of the meeting. We both pretty much concur on what happened. Debate was one-sided. The Unity people don't want to talk about the substance because they are 100% wrong.

35 comments:

  1. Mulgrew is full of shit. He is a gasbag. What do you expect?

    I expect teachers to vote him out in the next election.
    Otherwise , teachers as a community of trade unionists are
    a bunch of whiny losers without a working moral compass.

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  2. Again, we have to get her on NY1. I know not everyone has Spectrum, but she can reach a much wider audience, get better visibility, and possibly even secure a debate against Mulgrew with Errol Louis as moderator.

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  3. Great news everyone! The graduation rate in NYC ticked up yet again 2 points this year despite all the learning loss the poor kids experienced and all the psychological torment they have endured with online learning. ENL students' graduation rate rose 16 percent. Looks like online learning is better, but we all know it has to do with the Regents being cancelled and administrators telling teachers that if students attended once they should pass them. James, let's see a blog on this farce and see how other teachers feel.

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  4. @658 pm. I agree. Invite them both to a debate. Mulgrew will either decline or show up.

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  5. Mulgrew would never debate. Look how he answered the point of order with a lie.

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  6. I was there it was awful so much bullying and yelling from unity they look so weak

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  7. S'ok James. It's not a total loss they didn't let her speak, and you weren't there to support while they tried to wrestle away her mic. Shows her backbone and ability to take em on, and that's what I've been waiting to see. So bravo to her.

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  8. "I might not be quiet if I ever meet any of the people that abused my wife yesterday."
    Abused? Your wife was asked to give up the microphone and she refused.
    I CANNOT believe you compare being asked to give up the microphone to abuse! You clearly DON'T know the meaning of abuse. No one TOUCHED her, no one SCREAMED at her, no one ABUSED her.
    Your term of abuse is GREATLY exaggerated.
    As a survivor of abuse, I am insulted!

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    Replies
    1. "abused my wife's position..." quote correctly. and the word is appropriate even if it isn't the most extreme connotation for the concept of abuse.

      Delete
    2. Omg, take a valium @ 6:21. It was a figure of speech. Did anyone think they pulled out her fingernails or beat her to a pulp? Maybe you didn't survive as much as you think you did if you are soooo triggered by the word.

      Delete
  9. Lotta hate toward her on social media. She really needs to debate Mulgrew for all to see. This is the most controversial UFT election I have ever seen and I have been in the DOE since 95. The simple fact is that the lines are drawn for Unity and United for Change. However, the mass majority of teachers in NYC do not follow UFT politics and would benefit from a debate. I hope it happens, especially for the undecided.

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  10. For anyone interested, go to https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/about-us/contact-us
    Scroll down to contact a specific department and fill out the brief form.
    I recommend using the dropdown choice for Inside City Hall.

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  11. James, that was an excellent post. I think one of your best in recent months as it completely exposed how authoritarian Unity conducts it’s supposed assemblies in such a censored and stifling manner. The Pelosi analogy was spot on, along with the thorough historical context of Robert’s Rules.

    It was this line, in particular, that was a knockout: “The UFT runs its business in a way that Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong Un could recognize as opposed to Jeffersonian democracy.”

    This DA incident can be used by UFC in a broader media outreach to illustrate just how undemocratic the UFT has become under Mulgrew.

    I think UFC is completely wrong about mandates, but at the very least, they are trying to make the union more democratic, not just “Democratic”. Baby steps, I guess.

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  12. James,
    Now you know how we feel, angry, ready to get in the face of our exploiters and abusers, the UFT & the City, who through the management, are treating us like your wife was treated by Mulgrew & Co.

    How you have been able to keep charging ahead, believing in the reform of a corrupt union still baffles me. I will vote for Camille and for anyone but Unity. And I will continue to educate members about the corruption of our Union and tell them the truth: that ours is a weak union that won't be reformed, but that we must fight to stem the abuse and corruption.

    Thanks to you and Camille. Keep cool but care.

    Shelley

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  13. Leslie B.,
    Look up the word abuse. Your rigid use of the word is abuse of the word. The word connotes, more often than the connotation you suggest, to misuse, as in, to misuse power. And that, of course, is what has happened in this case. Mulgrew & Co. are misusing power, abusing those that would check it. In employing a rigid use of the word you also undermine efforts to define, and therefore, support victims of kind of abuse you suffered.


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  14. I clarified that this is abuse of power. Thank you Shelley. I thought that was understood but I guess not by all.

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    Replies
    1. I’m guessing I wasn’t the only one who called you out on that last paragraph as you CHANGED it. Your original comment said, abuse my wife. PERIOD.

      Delete
    2. Leslie B,

      You were the only one who criticized me for using the word abuse. We clarified and left your comment and printed the later one too. We didn't run from what we wrote. This is abuse of power in abusing the leader of the opposition by shutting her down. Now, let's talk about the substance on democracy.

      Delete
    3. The only people abused were the delegates. The question period was eliminated because a member behaved in an unprofessional, irresponsible manner.
      I later learned she was a candidate for UFT President.
      She certainly lost my vote.

      Delete
  15. Quite clear what happens anytime anyone challenges unity. I'm for disagreements, I'm not for silencing the other side. Quite shameful how far we have fallen.

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  16. Nobody asking why there are no term limits why is Mulgrew even allowed to run again? Just like Pelosi, 88 year old traitor Feinstein, Mcconnell (turtle bitch face), maxine nut job watters, jerry nadler, and many more.

    Got a taste of censoring it's not fun or cool when you have the facts right????? Welcome to the world on the right who get censored for "conspiracies" which turn out to to be the truth.

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  17. Yeah they didn't get to hear, "Oh Mike you are doing such a wonderful job." They could have moved to extend if there were urgent questions.

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  18. Unity won't touch the democracy points because they are completely wrong.

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  19. In addition a lot of the pressing business unity wants to get done is performative like their decorum resolution

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  20. Glad to see Camille Eterno make a public stance against Unity at what is not a DA meeting and more of their own personal rally.

    But 4:29's point about censoring is correct. If UFC is going to go anywhere they have to acknowledge that there is a faction of the left that cancels and censors people to suit their narrative and many of us on the right feel ostracized by this. If UFC wins and the time comes for them to lead the DA I hope they let the other side speak without complaint.

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  21. Not sure if you know this James but on the Sports Websites, Caesar's and DraftKings actually has odds on the UFT vote this spring. The over/under for Unity winning is currently at 81%. I'm going with the over. No offense, just that there's no organization for teachers to understand and vote a certain way. It's predetermined. My prediction is full sweep Unity at 84%.

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  22. I wonder who censors more: the uft or this blog voice of ufc.
    In either, and every case, censorship is a sign of weakness and fear.
    Oh well. Maybe it's a tie.

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  23. We are not the official voice of UFC. We are an independent blog basically.

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  24. "The only people abused were the delegates. The question period was eliminated because a member behaved in an unprofessional, irresponsible manner."
    What a crock of shit. You only get 10 minute question period because mukrew talks for an hour. If you want questions tell him to shut up, not abuse Camille.

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  25. "I wonder who censors more: the uft or this blog voice of ufc.
    In either, and every case, censorship is a sign of weakness and fear.
    Oh well. Maybe it's a tie."
    Another crock of shit. James doesn't post racist or totally off topic subjects. What's the matter, frustrated that your telling people to remove their dues doesn't get posted 12 times a day?
    Go start a blog.

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  26. @2:10 nice projection.
    Here's the interesting thing about Big Jim's censorship:
    1) I suspect he's turned many possible ufc voters off because of it. And no my precious, he doesn't just censor "racist" or repetitive entries.
    2) do you know what he censors? No, because it's censored.
    3) many at my school stopped reading and posting here because of Sir Censor. I just popped in after 6 months to see if anything has changed. It hasn't.
    I'll check back in another 6.

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  27. 3 simple rules for comments:

    1. Try to stay close to the topic.No hijacking the posts.

    2. If you are making claims beyond the story, then give links to your sources. If Media Bias-Fact Check finds them unreliable or questionable, we won't post the comment.
    3. Try to stay away from personal attacks and keep the profanity to a minimum.

    That is not asking for too much. We respect the First Amendment. We print left, right, center and apolitical.

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  28. 7:07 - we do know some of what is censored because although an original post may not make it through a poster will usually follow up with a whine or complaint on how their post about stolen elections, or COVID lies didn't go through. My complaint is that he doesn't censor enough. Racist posts would get through all the time. Not sure if those folks have just stopped coming around, or if James finally stopped letting those disgusting posts go through.

    But my, my what a coincidence you just popped in after 6 months to check on censorship, just in time to respond to a post about censoring. Sure. That's believable.

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  29. 1. Hideous as Mulgrew's behavior was at the DA, Barr's and Sill's was worse. Barr was positively UNHINGED and freakish. Sills - - I lose respect for that "man" exponentially every day that he is a Unity dingleberry. He's a bright man. He used to be a good man. I knew him well. My Pollyanna-esque hope is that something happens to pull the scabs off his eyes and he see's what the rest of Mulgrew's coven is really about (long shot, I know..) Sill has the kind of intelligence and drive that would would work WONDERS away from (under)Lord Mulgrew. He used to actually give a flying fig about teachers, schools, children and the rights of both.

    2. I bet those of us who stick up for Camille will be allowed to register for the DA but, if participating from home, never get the actually call to "join"; thus, missing the first 5 - 15 minutes of the assembly. It's happened to me for about half of the delegate assemblies and a couple of the Town Halls this year.

    MM and his minions are very petty.

    Given their behavior at the last delegate assembly, scared too. Good job UFC!

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