Monday, May 04, 2020

REALITY BASED EDUCATOR ANSWERS THE FOLKS WHO WANT TO OPEN UP

Guest blogger Reality Based Educator has responded at my request to the commenters who want us to open up the country. RBE used to write the Perdido Street School blog, the best combination: education, labor, politics blog around. These days you can find him on Twitter. He doesn't hold back.

I live by the rule that Americans are the dumbest people on the planet and you'll never go broke betting on how stupid they are.

Take this question of when the United States should end social distancing measures and fully "re-open" the economy.

Protests are bubbling up all over America, from New York, where a few dozen stood in the rain with signs like "Our Rights Are Essential!" while not socially distancing or wearing masks (though many carried umbrellas because apparently drizzle is quite harmful to them), to Orange County, California, where an estimated 2,500 chanted "No Newsom!" and demanded the governor reopen the beaches.

One thing you'll notice at these rallies is that there seems to be a good amount of overlap between the MAGA crowd and the "Re-Open America!" crowd, with a nice contingent of neo-Nazis and Michigan militia members carrying guns thrown in for good measure.

That's not a surprise, really, because many (though not all) of the "Re-Open America!" calls are coming from wingnuts and Republicans scared witless that the economic consequences of the social distancing measures are not only going to bring defeat to Trump in November, they're going to devastate the GOP at all levels.

Well, all I can say is, they should have thought about all of that BEFORE Covid19 hit the nation with a broadside, when China had shut down Hubei Province (approximately 60 million people) with extraordinary measures and the Diamond Princess cruise ship was seeing exponential growth of positive Covid19 cases off the coast of Japan and the Lombardy section of Italy was starting to see its hospitals overrun with patients and its morgues overrun with Covid19 dead.

But instead, the Trump administration, and many winger supporters, downplayed the seriousness of the outbreak, claimed it was "contained...pretty close to airtight" as Trump advisor Larry Kudlow said on TV, and would "miraculously disappear by April," as Donald Trump himself said during a TV appearance.

But Covid19 didn't miraculously disappear by April.

Instead, here we are on May 4, with the country STILL not having peaked with Covid19 cases or deaths, even though we've had many states shut down since mid-to-late March.

There was an expectation that social distancing measures would help the country see a peak and then decrease in cases and deaths, as has happened in other countries, but instead case numbers and deaths are still rising in at least 20 states around the country.

In fact, if you take the NYC Tri-State area, which has seen a peak and then a sharp decrease in deaths, hospitalizations and case numbers out of the count, the U.S. hasn't flattened its curve at all.


Clearly something is wrong with how we are handling this crisis.

Yet I see wingers passing around some Hill column from Dr. Scott Atlas, a doctor and member of the Hoover Institute (you know, the think tank started by that fine president who made a depression into the Great Depression because he held fast to his libertarian views on the economy) as a blueprint for reopening.

The gist of the piece is that it's time to reopen, social distancing measures are doing more harm than good and we can protect those most at risk while still restarting the economy and recovering from the worst of the downturn.

Here's the problem with that - it's not true.

The NY Times today reported that the Trump administration's own internal numbers show they believe a peak won't come until June 1, when the United States will experience 3,000 deaths from Covid19-related conditions a day (the current daily total is a little under 2,000 a day right now, based on a three day rolling average.)

Let's do the math on that, shall we?

3,000 deaths a day becomes 90,000 deaths a month.

That assumes that the 3,000 deaths a day remains steady because the rate hits a plateau, but let's be optimistic, let's say once the peak is hit, the rate decreases quickly to 2,500 by mid-June and 2,000 by late June.

You're STILL looking at somewhere between 60,000 and 80,000 deaths a month, and, given that states are reopening now and not continuing social distancing measures to any great extent, there's no reason to think that a June 1 peak will see a rapid decrease off that peak.

The country currently has 68,326 deaths (per Johns Hopkins, 3:45 PM on 5/4)

Add in the 1,900 a day we're getting into a June peak + the 3,000 deaths a day at the peak + the 2000+ a day we're getting on the way down from the peak  and you're looking at hundreds of thousands dead even BEFORE cold/flu season in fall, when the second wave is expected to hit (as it did w/ Spanish Flu in 1918.)

And even if we get even more optimistic and say that these new internal Trump administration prognostications are wildly inaccurate and unvetted (as a Trump spokesperson said in response to the the Times story), the model the Trump administration likes to publicly tout for its numbers, the IHME model, just raised its estimates for Covid19 deaths through August to 134,475.

The Trumpies like to rely on the IHME model because it appears to have an optimism bias and has consistently under-counted death counts as a result but when even the most optimistic of models which Trump administration officials have been touting has raised its projections, tell me again why reopening is such a good idea given the worst isn't over yet?

The guy who wrote The Hill piece relies on the talking point that most people who get Covid19 won't die from it, just those who are most at risk - like older people and people with underlying conditions. He says we can protect those people and STILL open the economy for the rest.

But he fails to tell readers that dying from Covid19 isn't the only risk to people who get it. So is permanent lung damage, heart damage, kidney/liver damage and stroke risk.

See here 

And here 

And here 

Covid-19 does MAJOR damage to some people without underlying conditions who aren't in high risk groups - and doctors have no idea why.

Also, it's not like you just recover and it's all over.

You get a serious case, it takes weeks to recover, it's on a continuum, with symptoms going from bad to better to bad again, and you have to be hoping during that Day 5 to Day 10 period that the symptoms don't go from bad to REALLY bad, because that's when many end up on the ventilators.

As for the idea that we can protect the old and people with underlying conditions (obesity, asthma, diabetes, etc) by socially distancing "healthy" people from them while we run our full economy, has Dr. Atlas gotten a look at this country lately?

42.4% of adults in this country are obese.

That's from the CDC.

That's an awful lot of people with an underlying condition, isn't it?

And even if you're willing to write off the old and the fat and the diabetic and the asthmatic cuz' hey, they're just gonna have to sacrifice for the rest of us, there is a good number of people who aren't old or fat or diabetic or asthmatic who get Covid19 and end up really, really sick.

Anecdotally, you get the Ironman triathlete who almost dies from this or the Broadway actor/dancer who has his leg amputated because doctors couldn't control the Covid19-related clots that were forming or the 39-year old DJ with no underlying conditions who dies from it.

So, just because you're not old, fat, diabetic, asthmatic, etc., don't assume that if you get Covid19, it's assured that you just recover and it's all over.

You get a serious case, it can take weeks to recover or you can end up like the Ironman triathlete, Broadway actor/dancer or healthy 39-year old DJ.

To bring it back full circle, I'm under no illusion that wingers can be convinced that reopening the economy is more harmful to the country than continuing the social distancing measures, but quite frankly, even if every governor re-opened every part of her/his state's economy tomorrow, the economy is not going back to normal.

People are scared to go out in numbers like they used to and do things like they used to before this - you see that from Texas and Georgia, with the restaurants, bars, retail, etc. reopening, but people not exactly flocking to them.

You also see that in the polling.



So, reopen all you want, even though the country hasn't seen its first-wave Covid19 peak yet, even though the Trump administration expects the peak to bring 3,000 deaths a day and just ordered 100,000 body bags to get ready for the expected surge in deaths around the country, people aren't going to return the economy to normal anyway.

What people want is to feel safe, to know that if they contract Covid19, there is a drug that will mitigate the worst of the symptoms, that if they go to work or the mall, they can be reasonably assured that they are not coming in contact with positive cases, which means having the testing and contact tracing in place to quickly fence in localized outbreaks as they happen.

You want to reopen the economy, wingers - then get THOSE things done and you can and people will happily follow along.

But of course the Trump administration did NOTHING to prepare for the outbreak despite having been told by the intelligence services as early as November that this was coming here and it was going to be bad, so they've instead decided "Screw it, we need to reopen even though we're putting many people at risk and almost certainly worsening the outbreak by keeping the peak/plateau going on long past it should be..."

And the wingnuts on Fox News/talk radio and at the Hoover Institute are happy to give them cover, but you'll notice that they're doing it from the socially distanced-safety of their own homes via webcam.


Don't be a dumb American - don't listen to them.

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

Spoken like a true Lefty. All emotion but zero logic. You could stay hiding under your bed that is your choice. But don't take your brand of fascism and force it on the rest of us. We are not children, and unlike you we can think for ourselves. The fact remains but the mortality rate on this disease is 0.4% that means 99 .6% of people infected recover. You can calm down now snowflake

Anonymous said...

What is your source for that number? Can you refute any of the basic arguments?

Anonymous said...

About time someone gave it to the wingnuts here. Thanks RBE.

Bronx ATR said...

Let me start off by saying I respect your opinions - but disagree. I don’t listen to anyone, but my own common sense. This wasn’t bullshit in January to mid-April, however it is now. Response from our beloved leaders, from both parties and our union, was nothing at the beginning, when it was needed and now everything when it isn’t. I no longer wear a mask and don’t intend on doing so. I go out every day. I want to go back to work and my kid, who’s a high school senior, wants to go back to school - but that would stop Gov. Cuomo’s daily melodrama dog and pony show for his own benefit. The only thing worse than the right wing nuts and the left wing nuts is the compulsion to classify everyone into one of two camps. Area hospitals have few to no virus cases. (Many of folks that got it and died were in nursing homes. Cuomo sent the infected into them.) All forms of media are questionable and no longer objective. If you want to get an answer you must search for it yourself. Visit area hospitals - few to no cases. Visit the Central Park tents, no one infected, they’re closing it up. Tents in White Plains - same thing. Where’s that good ship lollipop that Trump sent in? Gone. All those ventilators? Gathering dust. Enough ... the sky isn’t falling. Americans aren’t stupid, they are gullible. Trump, Cuomo, deBlasio, and Mulgrew are examples of us believing in subpar opportunists - and we are all paying the price. Big fan of your blog by the way. You’ve always known what Cuomo is - the devil. Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Schools must remain closed.

While the infectious inoculum required for infection is unknown, these studies indicate that close & prolonged contact is required for #COVID19 transmission. The risk is highest in enclosed environments; household, long-term care facilities and public transport.
High infection rates seen in household, friend & family gatherings, transport suggest that closed contacts in congregation is likely the key driver of productive transmission. Casual, short interactions are not the main driver of the epidemic though keep social distancing!
Increased rates of infection seen in enclosed & connected environments is in keeping with high infection rates seen in megacities, deprived areas, shelters. A recent preprint demonstrates that #COVID19 epidemic intensity is strongly shaped by crowding.

Jonathan said...

I agree - those arguing to open now are wrong. But when? And how?

I want the peak to have passed - well passed - here and nearby - with nearby broadly defined.

I actually think the NYS guidelines are somewhere in the ballpark - transmission rate below 1.1, at least 30% availability of hospital beds, crunch PPE available, two consecutive weeks of very low numbers or declines (maybe more than 2), etc.

The numbers make me think most of this region will hit those benchmarks in June/July.

But what will reopening look like? And what will it look like in schools?

jd

Anonymous said...

I agree with Bronx ATR. Politicians from both sides have gotten it wrong, experts have gotten it wrong, medical professionals are at a loss; willing to try anything. We have to rely on ourselves, read, stay informed and make up our own minds. I don't trust the statistics people throw out, either. I heard once that 90% of statistics are made up, or was that 75%?

Let's not forget that democrats were in full throttle impeachment mode in December, January and early February. So, if we are going to point fingers, let's start there.

I am not convinced that the younger folks who have died were healthy and had no underlying conditions. You would be surprised how many people have underlying conditions or habits and either don't know or don't share. High blood pressure, diabetes, cardiovascular issues, hepatitis, STD's, and years of habitual pot smoking are much more prevalent than people think.

As for Mr. Mulgrew, he should be ashamed and riddled with guilt. If he was even a little caring for his constituents and had any self awareness, he would step down. Being the president of the UFT is way over his abilities. He doesn't even seem to be aware of his subpar intelligence. He doesn't even know that he comes across as a buffoon. I am sure his underlings frequently lie to him to save their own cushy positions. Worst of all, Mulgrew has no natural talent or ability for leadership.

Anonymous said...

Today is May 5 over 1 month that it was told to us we had to work Spring Break, we were told we would get 4 days put in our CAR, still not there, terrible!!

Anonymous said...

@9:28

relax buttercup. 350 million people in the U.S. and we already know how contagious this is. Trump didnt shut the country down for no reason, even he can do simple math. If you let everyone in the U.S. get it..and the death rate is .4 or .5 percent, do you know how many people that is that will die? Yikes! guess we should just go with herd immunity and roll the dice for the millions that will die. But like you said buttercup, you can think for yourself and you're totally ok with a .4 percent death rate and survival of the fittest...a true american hero. Guess when the year is over everyone can compare how well they were able to guess the correct path for infectious diseases, seems like we are all internet experts, some overnight!

Anonymous said...

Washington Post

Americans widely oppose reopening most businesses, despite easing of restrictions in some states, Post-U. Md. poll finds
About half of states have eased restrictions on businesses, but Americans’ unease about patronizing them represents a major hurdle to restarting the economy.

Many Americans have been making trips to grocery stores, and 56 percent say they are comfortable doing so, according to a Washington Post-University of Maryland poll. But 67 percent say they would be uncomfortable shopping at a retail clothing store, and 78 percent would be uncomfortable eating at a sit-down restaurant.

Could it be RBE most of the American people aren't that stupid?

"Don't want to an American idiot."

Anonymous said...

Don't want to be an American idiot.

James Eterno said...

I respect your view Bronx ATR. If RBE is wrong, we sit for another few weeks. We will get over that. If he's right and evidence shows this is spreading in 20 states and hasn't peaked nationally, then opening up too fast is just compounding this tragedy.

Results matter, Cuomo and de Blasio and Trump waited too long to close and we paid for their dithering. Not having ample testing and no contact tracing were big mistakes here too. Trump continues to screw it up while deBlasio has become an irrelevant joke who nobody takes seriously. Cuomo is the same power hungry corrupt governor he always was.

They are going to be overly cautious now on the back end of the curve in NY to make up for the dithering in March but how can it hurt much more if we wait a few more weeks to open up?

Mulgrew has shown to care more about his dues than our lives. Dues first always should be the union slogan. Nothing more to say there.

I really hope you are right that this has passed.

TJL said...

This really shouldn't be a political discussion. Honoring natural civil rights, enumerated in the Bill of Rights, should not make one a "wingnut". My God.

What is so bad about giving people the FREEDOM to decide for themselves whether they want to open their businesses, go to work, go for a Sunday drive, enjoy playgrounds with their children, have family dinners, etc. Their lives belong to THEM, not YOU! Stop trying to save people from themselves. It's not the role of government and is as futile as the equally pointless "War on Drugs".

By the way, people are still free to practice "social distancing" without draconian government restrictions.

Anonymous said...

Your freedom ends when you can make me sick by going out when you are infected.

Constitution says one of government's jobs is to"promote the general Welfare."

Shelley said...


One thing is for certain, whatever one may think about American intelligence, we've been wearing a "KICK ME I'M STUPID" sign long before Homer Simpson dreamed of his first doughnut, while ostensibly monitoring a nuclear power plant.
Our response to the thrashing we've gotten, form others and from ourselves, has been nothing short of genius. I'm not going to claim American Exceptionalism, but anyone vaguely familiar with the incredible achievements of this young nation, with its struggles, with its infinite capacity to wonder, dream, engineer, innovate, and welcome new comers who do so much to keep all that going and going, can't help but admit that ours is a people, that, while it does have far too many Yahoos, is one of incredible intelligence.

Unlike most people in the world we have no ancient history or culture; we are moderns. Pragmatism is only philosophy our nation has produced. To build a nation we used grit, rugged individualism, violence, and modern machines. We developed pragmatism, the foundation of our great universities and colleges, and from these we produced the most productive people in the world. Our comparative advantage is our intelligence, or what economists call human capital. We still have the most educated, the most skilled, and the most technological work force in the world. We are still close to the top by any measure that matters and, despite all the handwringing about American decline, we gained ground in the last decade. While prophets of doom point out that we once produce about 50% of the world's GDP, what’s amazing is that we still produce far more than any people on earth, around 25%.

Pretty fart smellers, those Americans. And while we pride ourselves on common sense, elbow grease, and trial and error, we have accomplished most of the incredible feats with science and engineering. We are a people that distrusts power, authority, government. It's in our constitution and it's in our Constitution too. We may trust our common sense, but we know that common sense has serious limitations. And that our individual observations have serious limitations. And that anecdotal evidence is no substitute for research.

We are not dumb and dumber, but we don't we trust experts and academics. Why not? We've had an anti-intellectual strain in this country from the start, but our distrust of science, of education, of experts and educators has reached critical mass. This has little to do with politics. It’s not a fear of lost white privilege or snowflake fantasy. No, it’s not the Internet.

Some of us enjoy academic and/or intellectual freedom. And more and more people resent us for it. Even within our ranks it is shockingly conspicuous.

American are not stupid, but when they see that all systems are rigged against them, they will reject all those who have benefited by those systems.

We can't solve this problem with common sense. We know this because we're smarter than that. We are modern. We are pragmatists. We are Americans. We will solve this very difficult problem. But like all difficult problems we've worked on and solved in the past, it will take a long time and we will need to be greater than common. We will need to put our smartest people to the problem and we will need to trust them, even when they tell us they simply don’t know enough, can’t know enough, won’t provide a common sense solution to a problem that demands that we think and work at it and think and work, the way intelligent people, smart Americans always have when confronted with a difficult problem.

Anonymous said...

This is civic duty like jury duty.

Anonymous said...

From Pacific Legal Foundation

The most significant early decision from the U.S. Supreme Court to mention the state power to quarantine occurs in an 1824 case known as Gibbons v. Ogden. Considered a landmark decision on the federal power to regulate commerce on the interstate waters, Chief Justice John Marshall — our greatest chief justice; the competition is only for second — explained that one of the powers the state possessed was the power to quarantine.

This was not controversial; as Marshall put it, the power to quarantine was seen as a power “flowing from the acknowledged power of a State to provide for the health of its citizens.”

Or to put it another way, Duh.

Anonymous said...

Since you want to talk history, this quote from Germany's Chancellor Bismarck kind of says a lot about how we were traditionally looked upon and maybe rightfully:

"God has a special providence for fools, drunkards, and the United States of America.”

TJL said...

Quarantine refers to the segregation of sick people. Putting healthy people under house arrest without due process is against the Bill of Rights. And no, doing so for the "general welfare" is not an excuse - in fact the "general welfare" clause in Article I, Section 8 restricts Congress' ability (Congress being a key word, so-called "Executive Orders" suspending the Bill of Rights are wrong when Trump does it just as much as when Cuomo does it) to tax and spend to the 18 enumerated items provided they promote the "general welfare" rather than those of a particular State. Not to mention, how exactly would even a sick person infect a particular individual if said individual was not out of the home himself?

If you want to stay in your house, go ahead. Try your hand at getting things delivered if you wish. Wear a Tyvek suit if you want. You can even go full Doomsday Prepper and get yourself an off-grid cabin somewhere remote with a year's supply of MRE's from My Patriot Supply, with a stash of guns, ammo and gold coins. Interestingly enough that kind of thing was the domain of "right-wing" radio, websites and podcasts.

Since this is an Ed blog, I thank my History teachers and Math (logic) teachers.



Anonymous said...

NY Times

Why has the United States failed to bring down its caseload as much as most other countries?

The answer isn’t completely clear, given the complexity of the virus. But the leading suspect, many experts say, is the uneven nature of the U.S. response — like the shortage of tests so far and the mixed approach to social distancing.

“The problem with the American response is that it’s so haphazard,” Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told me.

One way to see the pattern is to look at the U.S. caseload outside the New York metro area. New York has been hit harder than any other city in the world, thanks to its large number of foreign visitors, its high population density and a slow initial response from its political leaders.

But New York has since engaged in fairly rigorous social distancing, and its caseload trend looks like that of a European country: up and then down.

The story is different in the rest of the country. Outside of the New York region, the caseload still has not peaked.

Anonymous said...

Federal law for TJL:

Federal Law
The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

TJL said...

12:00, good job, but there's a case where Congress delegated its power over foreign and interstate commerce. It's right there in the text you posted. A contractor doing a job in someone's house in his own State is not covered.

Besides, we, and especially the History teachers, could likely argue all day and give many examples about various Federal, State and Local laws that violate people's Civil Rights from all over the political spectrum.

Anonymous said...

From CDC:

Large-scale isolation and quarantine was last enforced during the influenza (“Spanish Flu”) pandemic in 1918–1919. In recent history, only a few public health events have prompted federal isolation or quarantine orders.

Anonymous said...

When someone shows the states have broad police power from the Constitution (10th Amendment) and court decisions, someone here disputes it.

If what the states are doing wasn't legal, why hasn't some asshole Federalist society group run into court to stop the government overreach and why haven't the Mitch McConnell approved federal judges freed us

Anonymous said...

From Forbes

The most helpful case is from back in 1905 during the smallpox epidemic, Jacobson v. Massachusetts. In that case, a pastor argued that a mandatory smallpox vaccination violated his constitutional rights. The Supreme Court sided with Massachusetts but framed its decision carefully.

The Court acknowledged that “the liberty secured by the Fourteenth Amendment . . . consists, in part, in the right of a person ‘to live and work where he will.’” But it added: “in every well-ordered society . . . the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.”

That would seem to apply here.

Anonymous said...

As I said earlier. Duh.

Anonymous said...

Mayor Bill de Blasio
@NYCMayor
We have an urgent health alert for parents and doctors.

We’ve detected 15 cases of multi-system inflammatory syndrome detected in children in NYC hospitals. 4 patients tested positive for COVID-19 while 6 others had antibodies.

Anonymous said...

Cuomo says the state will partner with the Gates Foundation to "convene experts and develop a blueprint to reimagine education in the new normal."

TJL said...

Well, 1:38 hopefully something we can all agree on is that the Gates Foundation and reimagining education is very bad news.

Anonymous said...

Well, now we know students, young people, can get very ill...What school staff member will deal with this when they start vomiting in front of us, in a classroom, as they spread virus?

We have an urgent health alert for parents and doctors.

We’ve detected 15 cases of multi-system inflammatory syndrome detected in children in NYC hospitals. 4 patients tested positive for COVID-19 while 6 others had antibodies.
Mayor Bill de Blasio
@NYCMayor
·
24m
We haven’t seen any fatalities yet, but we are very concerned by what we’re seeing.

We’re learning more every day about how COVID-19 affects the body. This is a ferocious disease.
Mayor Bill de Blasio
@NYCMayor
·
24m
If your child is experiencing a persistent fever, rash, abdominal pain or vomiting, call your doctor right away.

@nycHealthy
has instructed all New York City health care providers to report any patients under 21 years old with these symptoms IMMEDIATELY.

Anonymous said...

Oh no not Gates.

Anonymous said...

Sad news. There's a post on Chaz School Daze from his son alerting the passing of Chaz due to Covid-19. Another teacher - this is unreal.

Anonymous said...

A mutation in the novel coronavirus mirrors a change that occurred in the genetically similar SARS virus in 2003 — indicating that the bug might be weakening, researchers announced in a newly published study.

Lead study author Dr. Efren Lim, an assistant professor at Arizona State University’s Biodesign Institute, and his team use a new technology called next-generation sequencing to rapidly read the genetic code of the coronavirus, referred to by scientists as SARS-CoV-2.

That technology helps researchers determine how the virus is spreading, mutating and adapting over time.

waitingforsupport said...

@11:56 am: I agree with this explanation. I also agree with RBE's point that America could have and should have acted sooner. I also agree with Bronx ATR's dislike of people being categorized as either right or left. What happened to America being indivisible? I continue to wear a mask while in public. I still see folks jogging without a mask and mouth breathing. Imo it's inconsiderate. Those folks need big brother telling them what to do as they cause unneccessary concern to their fellow Americans. I hope to see businesses open as the daily hospitalization rate drops and the new infection rate decreases. I dont know about you but i want to live. There will be a vaccine and then we move on. Some folks are annoyed by the government telling them what to do but some of those same people listens to the government (DOE) when they are told to pass failing students. I don't get it. Finally, America is as strong as its weakest link. Who knows how much stronger she can be if all citizens are given a fair opportunity to fly.

Anonymous said...

How am I going to work?
Gov. Andrew Cuomo acknowledged that simple physics will make it difficult to socially distance on subway trains and keep the coronavirus from spreading again when the Big Apple comes back to life after the pandemic.

“You can socially distance now on a subway ’cause the ridership is down 92%, but when the subway is up and running, I don’t think it would be possible to stay six feet apart,” Cuomo admitted during his daily press conference Tuesday. “You can wear masks, you could do sanitizer, I don’t know what the capacity would go down to with six feet apart.”

Anonymous said...

NY vs FL...A forgotten principle of public policy reform: focus on failure and you will get failure, focus on success and you will get success. Looking at the past two months of our state responses to the coronavirus, it is time to revive that idea. 

There’s one state in America that has a larger elderly population than New York, that is more ethnically diverse than New York, and that has two million more people than New York. Yet its death rate from COVID-19 is 5 percent that of New York. That state is Florida. 

The tale of these two states, New York and Florida, illustrates that perhaps the media should have been less adulatory of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and given Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis more attention. Instead, the facts and statistics reveal the media got this backward. 

In March, Florida was projected to be the second-worst state for COVID-19 deaths, with predictions of 174 per day and a total of nearly 7,000 by the end of the summer.  Nothing like this has transpired and it will not come to pass.   

Meanwhile, Cuomo’s daily press briefings have been covered in full, and he has been lauded as everything from “The Golden Governor” to “The Politician of the Moment.” DeSantis, however, receives headlines such as “Florida Governor Issues Coronavirus Stay at Home Order After Heavy Criticism” and “Florida Governor Keeps Hitting New Lows In the Battle Against Coronavirus.”

Yet while New York kept chalking up bigger and bigger infection rates and deaths, Florida contained its problems early and without the heavy hand so many urged. 

While one might be tempted to point out the ways in which New York and Florida are different, and there are differences, a few things of a comparative nature are not well-understood. As is well documented, the most vulnerable population for the coronavirus is in the 65-plus age group.  

Anonymous said...

New Studies Add to Evidence that Children May Transmit the Coronavirus
Experts said the new data suggest that cases could soar in many U.S. communities if schools reopen soon.

Among the most important unanswered questions about Covid-19 is this: What role do children play in keeping the pandemic going?

Fewer children seem to get infected by the coronavirus than adults, and most of those who do have mild symptoms, if any. But do they pass the virus on to adults and continue the chain of transmission?

The answer is key to deciding whether and when to reopen schools, a step that President Trump urged states to consider before the summer.

Two new studies offer compelling evidence that children can transmit the virus. Neither proved it, but the evidence was strong enough to suggest that schools should be kept closed for now, many epidemiologists who were not involved in the research said.

TJL said...

If anyone wants the source of 6:01's post it's here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/health/coronavirus-children-transmission-school.html

Very interesting and relevant to us as I had recently read this:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/29/no-case-child-passing-coronavirus-adult-exists-evidence-review/

The devil being in the details, the latter article at least focuses on under 10. Sweden has kept their compulsory (up to 16) students in school but secondary high school (to 19) and University students at home.

Anonymous said...

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B_eJKQ9nYq3/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

The link above is via a NYC nurse’s friend. It has the ring of truth to it and makes a case that anyone with the virus is being treated invasively causing more damage, including death. There’s an incentive for the hospitals to keep the virus numbers up. Where’s ACLU when we need it?

Anonymous said...

aclu lol. look at their home page. NOTHING about first amendment etc violations (and no, theyre not optional).

Anonymous said...

You guys are fucked. I'm so glad I'm leaving after the last retro payment. TRUMP SAYS TEACHERS OVER AGE 60 SHOULD NOT BE TEACHING...Cuomo and Gates re-imagining schools, and of course with the uft being useless, plus the economic destruction, they may get rid of half the workforce.

Anonymous said...

Mayor Bill de Blasio said Wednesday he’ll have to start furloughing or laying off essential municipal employees if the city doesn’t receive federal stimulus funds to fill budget gaps caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

“Right now what I’m staring down the barrel of, and cities and states all over the country, people are either acting on furloughs and layoffs or preparing for furloughs or layoffs of the exact people who have been the heroes in this crisis who we should be celebrating and supporting — first responders, the health care workers, the educators,” de Blasio said on CNN’s “New Day.”

“How are we going to support these people who we need if we don’t have any money?” de Blasio asked.

The mayor has previously said that cuts to the municipal workforce are a last resort.

Anonymous said...

From a Yale epidemiologist

How many people will die this summer, before Election Day? What proportion of the deaths will be among African-Americans, Latinos, other people of color? This is getting awfully close to genocide by default. What else do you call mass death by public policy? #COVID19

Anonymous said...

No better metaphor for the White House’s denialism than Trump pretending that everything is fine while everyone around him and his family gets infected.