Norm Scott is a founder of ICEUFT who has been a UFT activist for half a century. This morning, in the comments section here, Norm spoke out forcefully. This is his full comment.
ed notes onlineTuesday, July 17, 2018 8:41:00 AM
I've pretty much given up on organizing people to fight Unity. Let inertia take them down one day. The fact is there will be no one out there to replace them.
Where are the 12,000 people who voted against Unity in 2016 or the 25,000 people who voted against the 2014 contract? They are the problem in addition to an inept opposition in which I have no faith in its ability to organize these people.
So people like James and I are frustrated at the lack of action on the part of even a fraction of these people. They seem to be happy to vote against Unity every 3 years and then go away. That's why I am doing everything I can to stop people from running. Let Unity show how "democratic" they are when they have an election that is Putin's dream.
James' pleas to people on this blog will go nowhere. How can they become active if they won't even use their names? In my district the UFT controlled the political machine and was always on the attack against us - even telling my AP to give me a U rating - which he refused to do, thus destroying his aim to be a principal. So you'll pardon me if I don't have sympathy for all the whining about how bad things are when they won't stand up and fight back. We couldn't get 5 of you to show up at a Del Ass to protest the leadership. I'm there every month waiting for you.
I'm urging James to join me in hammock sitting and not provide this forum until you all actually do something.
If you are dropping out from the union then try to organize people into an alternative union to the UFT. ATRs go from school to school and have enormous access to people.
The fact is some people do stand up, just not enough and they have no sense of organizing people. Basically, the game is over. As the UFT shrinks people like Cuomo will run roughshod over teachers. Maybe you'll get 10 observations a year. Forget about any more raises. Class sizes of 40 will be the norm. In 10 years you will be a version of Wisconsin with no contract at all.
Let us know if you want to do something about it. - we will continue to meet as ICEUFT every month or so to keep ourselves up to date -- these meetings are actually fun - then back to the hammocks.
REPLY
I would add that the UFT/AFT leadership is a major problem too as they are primarily interested only in keeping their own power so they encourage member passivity.
We all have each other. Taking us down the "everyone for herself/himself " road by opting out is worse than a dead end. You are going the wrong way on an interstate highway. You personally may survive but there will be a major wreck.
Anyone want to step forward or is it off to the hammocks?
48 comments:
When and where is the next ICE meeting?
I think it is July 26th. Need to check with Norm. Most meetings are in Manhattan. I will update this.
Totally wrong. We have paid for a union to fight for us, that’s their job, and they get paid highly to do it. Dereliction of their responsibility doesn’t mean I or anyone else has done anything wrong.
We all pay for lots of services,lawn people, dry cleaning, daycare, etc. if they don’t provide the service, then we take our money and go elsewhere-If I am forced to or need to do it myself, I certainly won’t pay others.
I’m unhappy with my union, I’m pulling my dues, and yes, I’ll stop complaining.
Urgent News: unless you take immediate action you'll lose your union discounts. Agency member here... Union seems to think I'm going to join for a lousy 10% off of my umbrella insurance and no installment fees on my homeowner's which I paid in full in escrow. I would like to thank the UFT. This big threat worked. I called and saved $100 a year with a new company, no NYSUT exclusive savings needed. I took my "immediate action" but not the one the NYSUT suggested.
Makes sense to me, Norm, but then I'd only spent a few years teaching and was an activist in the formal sense of the word only until I retired.
But are people seriously thinking about running again in the next UFT election? One of the questions on the table is "hammocks or elections?"
I wouldn't even sign an election petition while laying in my hammock.
Only one petition. I had you sign hundreds. Having run the petition campaigns in the 2013 and 16 election - 8 weeks of intensity -- I feel this time is as good as retiring. At my age I don't need to waste almost 2 months of my life doing something useless.
Hope to see you at the ICE meeting next week.
Hoping rice pudding with whip cream can lure you down to the city.
When did the Russians interfere in our election? 2016.
Who was President? Obama.
Who was head of the CIA? John Brennan.
Who was the National Intelligence Director? Clapper.
Who was head of the FBI? First Mueller, then Comey.
It is 2018 & all of them are blaming @
1:51, A labor union is not an insurance company. Unity has made it like that but it is not. You are not merely paying for a service to some outside entity. A labor union is an organization of workers who bargain collectively with management to improve working conditions. We are all the union. Expecting someone else to fix it is a mistake.
Please stay close to the topic. Thank you.
Wow.
You know why UNITY survives? They are stick together. No, I’m not UNITY. I’m also not GOP, but watch how they stick together.
You whine because no one wants to play your game. Well, too bad.
Grow up. You can’t always get what you want. You fight because you want teachers to have good lives and good jobs. That’s why I fight, go to the DA and educate the teachers in my school. Do the teachers in my school frustrate me? Yes. But, each year I get more people to become more active. I got people to vote against the last contract. I got people to vote for the non-Unity people.
The UFT is no way perfect. I have so many complaints I could write essays for months. But, they are better than nothing.
Oh guys, horrendous this is where we find ourselves after all these years. What a mess. I’ll blame the democrats for where we are now. The democrats, complete sell outs who want us to believe they are still the party of the people. We live in the land where money is the only thing that matters. Few people see the big picture.
Thank you for all that you have done. We tried with MORE, but some of us saw the writing on the wall. You know who you are.
Heaven knows where this will lead.
What about dealing with the discipline, danger and violence problems in Brooklyn schools? Gangs are a big issue...A 15-year-old boy was shot and killed in Bushwick, Brooklyn Tuesday evening.
A woman who lives nearby captured the scene with her cell phone. Police say a 42-year-old innocent bystander was also grazed in the cheek by a bullet.
He was taken to Woodhull Hospital where he’s recovering.
Police have a man in custody and believe the shooting may be gang related.
Another whiner about discipline. As if this is a new thing. I've seen kids in elementary school totally out of control- especially when new teachers were involved who hadn't learned how to control a class yet. I went through hell my first year. You think there weren't gangs in the past? Did you see West Side Story? Blackboard Jungle in the 50s? Our neighborhood in East NY had the Roman Lords, the Baldies, etc. You act like you discovered something. Somehow thousands of teachers have survived all these years with awful principals and a union that doesn't stand up for them. I've said it before here - my district UFT controlled all the principal and AP positions for many years. I will say this -- they didn't put in boobs in most cases --- many principals had been chapter leaders -- and maybe we should make that a requirement.
If chapter leaders became principals, these people had to have the support of the majority of their UFT staff. Some of the principals today are almost universally loathed except for a few butt kissers.
You never worked in the Joel Klein and post Joel Klein eras Norm. I worked before, during and after Klein and the Union clearly is much, much worse today. Joel Klein bragged that the 2005 contract was the first step in killing the UFT and the next contract was supposed to finish us off. Instead, it's been a slow deterioration since then.
Whether the UFT weakness is caused by poor leadership that encourages member passivity or a timid membership that won't step up to defend themselves or a combination of both is a debate we can have.
Shhh, quiet everyone, the great legend in his own mind norm is speaking. Listen up an learn something about the 1970’s and 80’s.
Yeah, Norm sounds like a guy too self-righteous and maniacal to organize anything effectively. But I get his anger. I understand his feelings of having given so much time and energy, but when people aren't buying what your selling it may be time to move on.
My experience is that the majority of the involved/aware rank and file are sick of the UFT/NTSUT/AFT affiliation with left-wing causes. According to the dominant "narrative" in vogue for many years now, the way I look, my "gender identity," etc., makes me an enemy of students "of color." Sorry, I don't want to pay to hear someone denigrate huge swaths of the population to which they, accidentally, belong. The local, state and national leadership of the union movement have played their last hand of identity politics on my dime. My dues should be used solely to support teacher issues, not the crap I see today and have been forced to financially support for many years. Unlike taxes, I have a choice now. I don't want to pay for Mulgrew to have tea with BLM or Randi to have a selfie with Hillary, etc.
So until the teachers unions, Norm or anyone else decides to divorce themselves from those "causes" which are irrelevant because that upon which they are based are accidental, then I likely will retain my $1400/year for causes that support teachers. I am still deeply conflicted by this however. Maybe back to the hammock....
Please do not insult Norm. I am a recently retired teacher not from NYC. I also served in many union leadership roles. No insults intended but everyone believes It isn't going to happen to them. I watched as younger teachers expressed concern with APPR. They were told don t worry. I watched as everyone was concerned about the tax cap and were told never happen. I watched as everyone was content to pay dues and frankly sit on their ass and believe the horseshit because it was easy. Doing something takes balls and commitment not just on the part of just leadership but on the part of membership. It is up to leadership to listen to and inspire the members. It was the hardest thing I ever did as President of a local. I don't know how you handle the monster of Uft/Unity but I know a couple of things. You must be available to members. You must be honest and transparent and you must give them a sense of pride in their union. I know sitting and bitching doesn't get the job.done. Bring new blood give them responsibility and listen. Even after retiring I help out behind the scenes so as not to distract from the new leaders authority. James and Norm I salute you! and don't let the bastards wear you down.
Please do not insult Norm. I am a recently retired teacher not from NYC. I also served in many union leadership roles. No insults intended but everyone believes It isn't going to happen to them. I watched as younger teachers expressed concern with APPR. They were told don t worry. I watched as everyone was concerned about the tax cap and were told never happen. I watched as everyone was content to pay dues and frankly sit on their ass and believe the horseshit because it was easy. Doing something takes balls and commitment not just on the part of just leadership but on the part of membership. It is up to leadership to listen to and inspire the members. It was the hardest thing I ever did as President of a local. I don't know how you handle the monster of Uft/Unity but I know a couple of things. You must be available to members. You must be honest and transparent and you must give them a sense of pride in their union. I know sitting and bitching doesn't get the job.done. Bring new blood give them responsibility and listen. Even after retiring I help out behind the scenes so as not to distract from the new leaders authority. James and Norm I salute you! and don't let the bastards wear you down.
My apologies to Norm.
Upon reflection, I further understand the anger and frustration.
My bad.
Thanks to James for this site also!
12:47. You have class and integrity Don't know you but the movement needs that. It cannot be taught
I might be crazy, but this job just is not worth fighting for- thus I will not spend my time trying to change things, or my money supporting a union I neither respect nor would ever turn to for help.
It's like bailing water out on the Titanic, it's all going down!
Dear Norm & James,
Can you please start a new union?
Signed,
NYC Teachers Everywhere
Be glad to help fix this union or assist in organizing a better union that truly supports teachers but need thousands and thousands to help. How many are in? I am not expecting any signed replies. Hence, why we are where we are.
We have met the enemy ad they are us.
Dear Norm & James,
This union is unfixable. Start a new one. Please.
Signed,
NYC Teachers Everywhere
That's a lot of nerve to say "so what" about discipline, bullying and danger. In reality, the lives of staff are at risk. People get assaulted all the time by students, more DOE cover-ups.
The problem with the union 11:59 (if there is a problem) is you. In your very sentence. Hey, Norm and James - Start a union!
What about you? What are you doing? The Union is not the President of the Union. The Union is individual Chapters and the Members. What have you done to fix the Union. Do you go to Chapter Meetings? When your Chapter decides to do a mobilization do you participate?
Have you run for Chapter Leader? Do you stand up to your Principal or do you kiss you know what? Do you file grievance EVERY time the Principal violates the contract. You don’t have to win the grievance, the act of filing a grievance upsets Principals because the make the radar. Do you go as a Chapter to the CEC.
I ask all these questions because in the Norm/James Union, you might get different leaders, but the problem for them will be you?
The Union is not a place in an office building, a union is in each and every one of us acting collectively.
How do we opt out?
Thanks for the supportive words and also for the criticism. Yes you should know history because everything happens in context.
There are reports about how rude young people were from the time of Socrates.
I don't think I was very successful as an organizer. Look at the outcomes. But I would claim no one in the opposition has been very successful when you look at outcomes overall. But I will take some credit with James and Arthur and Mike for helping win the high schools in the last election along with the work the New Action people did. That didn't happen without some organizing.
Ed Notes was a one man operation -- sort of nice in that you can get things done easily. That effort did spark some support in the union, even initially from some Unity people who promised me that Randi was a force for change. Sure. When I realized I was had I helped organize ICE.
The best organizing I did was with GEM which was not a caucus when I worked with a supreme organizer, Angel Gonzalez. Also in the early ICE Days with the late Paul Baizerman and Ira Goldfine who really knew how to do things. When they left ICE it was a blow. Organizing MORE always seemed like an uphill struggle as the ICE left didn't mesh very well with the TJC and NYCORE left.
Actually, I am not very angry anymore -- anger often drove me to act - so as a retiree what is there to be angry about? Unless the hammock rolls over on me.
You only lose the uft attorney, as far as i can tell.
5:04
You are going to lose a lot more that the UFT attorney.
You lose you sacred honor.
You lose the respect of your colleagues, family and most importantly any self remaining dignity.
You will be toasted by the 1%, but you will be laughed at in the circles of the elite.
If opting out is good for the Kochs, it got to be bad for you.
Every teacher that became an ATR lost that.
You’re going to have to improve your argument.
738, not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. Sacred honor? Is that joke? Who respects any teachers these days? Dignity? Being told by 15 year old lowlifes to suck their dick? Being called faggot? ATRs not getting bathroom keys? Being called sub? Principals refusing to abide by contractual rules? What am I losing? UFT pension consultants knowing less than me an giving incorrect info? Sill saying, oh well, too bad. Mulgrew making 300K and dues going up every year while we are still waiting for 80% of retro, going years without raises, then finally getting 10% over almost 8 years. Medical going up? Remind me again.
Dont forget the sacred open market. 20 years, great record, zero interviews, force placed.
No electronic device policy? Grade fraud? No suspensions? Sacred job, yeah right.
The Nuclear Option - Unity Caucus Trolls Be Warned - People Pulling Dues May Look to Alternatives
https://ednotesonline.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-nuclear-option-unity-caucus-trolls.html
So, again, what am I losing other than an attorney I dont need?
Based on everything written, dues arent worth it.
Why keep asking what you lose? Just leave and leave us alone.
i did already. sent it in 3 days ago.
Please leave the pro union blogs too.
Thot
But we all agree that we are getting screwed. This is pro union?
There are degrees of getting screwed - a scale of 1-10 of screwed.
If you think you are at 10 when the UFT is gone it will be 20.
But why worry? You will be out but the UFT will still be there negotiating contracts for you. Wouldn't it be great if the UFT disappeared entirely next month and you won't have to worry about even a 2% raise or a new contract? When you are Oklahoma and living on dog food get back in touch.
Im a millionaire, the uft can rot in hell. And im not like the other staff, still asking when retro is or when the next raise is or what my salary should be...
Yeah, the stupidity on the part of staff is pretty frightening.
As all the young teachers quit the jib in the first 5 years, oh yeah, its going great. Thats not the sign of a screwed up job.
I agree that a lot of teaching today is screwed up due to ed deform and a weaker UFT and stronger principals. BloomKlein neutered the UFT. Not ALL the young teachers quit. I know many teachers who have not quit in the first 5 years. But they seem to be the ones who got out of bad schools and found their way to easier admins to work with. The kind of principals we have may be the biggest reason for people to leave. It is the people trapped in the middle -- over 10 years who can get stuck when a new admin comes in and targets them. The fact the UFT ignores these stories and takes no action will be the biggest drain on people leaving. Weak chapters will have the biggest losses.
The stats say half leave but that has been true for a long time once the TFA and Fellows programs got started and people put in their 2 years.
That happened when I began teaching when many if not most of the men who came in to get away from the war quit. Many became lawyers like Joel Klein. I met a top level lawyer at a party once who spent 2 years in the Bronx in the late 60s and couldn't believe I stayed. "That was the hardest thing I ever did" he told me -- There was a guy in one of my schools who I never got to meet because he left after 10 years the year before I arrived. He was a legend for the kind of work he did - every other teacher idolized him. He totally burned out and couldn't do it anymore since he put everything he had into it. He died a few years later in a car accident while in his 30s.
Right, and its just not worth it. Torture with no gratitude.
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