Friday, March 08, 2019

MULGREW CONCEDES SCHOOL SAFETY IS BROKEN

The normally happy talking UFT President Michael Mulgrew is admitting that there are major problems in the schools with discipline and order. He is quoted in what is now becoming the voice of the shell shocked NYC teachers, the NY Post. “Our current discipline system is broken,” Mulgrew said Wednesday evening. “It doesn’t work for students or staff.” 

Mulgrew's solution to the problem is as wishy-washy as we would expect.

“To make schools safe for everyone, we need the resources and training necessary to change school climate,” Mulgrew said Wednesday.

Blah, blah, blah.

Okay, I'm for more resources but training is a code word for more professional development.

We don't need more professional development on discipline. We must have teachers put back in charge of classrooms. That's simple. Administration needs to support teachers and stop looking to control us. It is also essential for teachers to have a meaningful role in school safety that is more than just having to have representation on the Safety Committee.

Who are the ones that lose the most from our broken disciplinary system?
1-The teachers who have to put up with schools where they are not permitted to have control over the classroom for sure.

2-The decent kids who want to learn who suffer when the out of control children with many needs that can't be handled in a regular classroom can easily take over.

The Post has a column from a Flushing Middle School Teacher on school discipline.

An excerpt:

If I tell a student to put away her phone, the conversation usually goes something like this:

Student: “Leave me the f–k alone.”

Me: “I’m going to call your parents.”

Student: “I don’t give a crap. My parents will just agree with me.”

Then maybe she’ll throw a desk across the room for good measure.

So now the trend is that the good kids, the kids who do their homework, who pay attention, are seeing this and asking themselves, “Why do I have to be good all the time?” And now they’re misbehaving, too — because, well, why not?

So what can we teachers do to lay down the law? Under the current system, nothing. The best we can do is meet with the troubled kids and try to explain that their actions have long-term consequences. Consequences that, as adults, could be fatal.

Every now and then, it works.

Our new friends at the Post went even further last night publishing numerous accounts from teachers at every level from all over the city on the lack of discipline.

A sampling:

This is way beyond talking out of turn — today’s public-school students are hellions who attack educators, shout X-rated bile and make bomb threats with impunity, teachers told The Post.
"If I had a dime for every time I was told to suck something, I’d be a millionaire,” said a female Jamaica, Queens, high-school teacher.

 “They know the system. They can say whatever they want to us and get away with it, but we can’t say a thing to them.”
When teachers use what little leverage they have, the kids do their best to get the educators in hot water.

"You can’t even tell a student that they aren’t going to pass a test or a class anymore because they will go to an administrator and complain that you made them feel uncomfortable and we’ll get written up,” she added.

The situation is no better in elementary schools, a teacher at Staten Island’s PS 44 said.
“In the lunchroom, there are constant fights . . . I had to go to urgent care. I was kicked in the knee [by a student]. I was limping for a week. I had blocks thrown at me,” she said.

Here is what the Post said was Mayor Bill de Blasio's reaction to the lack of order in the schools.

But de Blasio on Thursday doubled down on his claims about the effectiveness and fairness of restorative justice, crowing that schools are safer now than ever.
“Just look at the statistics,” the mayor told reporters.

“I think they have been very clear and consistent,” he said.
“A lot of the problems we experienced in the past have been reduced greatly in our schools. Crime has gone down, violence has gone down, our schools are safer than ever before,” he said.

“We had to address the overuse of suspensions,” he added.
“We had to address the discriminatory use of suspensions.”

What is the old saying about statistics Mr. Mayor?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
What did Mark Twain officially say?
"Facts are stubborn but statistics are more pliable."
The facts are it is the wild west show with out of control students in way too many of our schools and the statistics are there for the gullible and politically motivated to quote.

The Post is not making these things up or just getting some small scale anecdotal evidence. The system is broken. Don't get me wrong, I'm no NY Post shill. While the Post's reporting on the schools has been on the money, the Post editorial board thinks the answer is more charter schools. That is not the solution.

More charter schools would make the problems in the schools worse as it would keep going a two tiered system of haves and have-nots. Lifting the cap on charters would deplete the public schools of resources but public schools would have to continue to compete on a non-level playing field for students since public schools must take all kids, including those with the most academic and emotional needs and English Language Learners. Charters can be selective, counsel out problem kids and not backfill their seats when students leave .

We must restore integrity to the system. The first step is to empower teachers to have control over their classrooms again. The culture in schools must make teachers feel respected by students, parents and administrators. 

84 comments:

Anonymous said...

So let's see. The NY Post sucks and is unreliable, except when it says things you agree with. Then it's completely correct, not anecdotal, and your best friend. Great argument Eterno.

Anonymous said...

The Post is correct on the reporting, not the editorializing. The reason the charters are working is that they have consequences for students - mostly just to throw them back to the public schools.

Anonymous said...

Mulgrew is irrelevant. No one gives a shit what he has to say about anything, unless there’s money involved and then you can hear a pin drop. The karma of the business model - detachment, apathy and get the fuck out as fast as you can without PTSD or getting arrested for knocking someone out.

James Eterno said...

I worked in the schools until 2018. I have plenty of contacts in the schools as Jamaica chapter members work all over the place now and I am married to a teacher. I know what's going on to some extent. The Post reporting on the schools is accurate as far as anyone can tell but the editorials are proposing horrible solutions as 11:11 quite correctly points out that charters send us their problem kids.

Anonymous said...

You see the answer, they are going to say that too many minorities are getting suspended. The answer should be that they commit more crime, but people wont say that, in a totally minority school system.

Anonymous said...

Not changing. Half the city would be suspended. There has to be a way to immediately get rid of the biggest problems, hopefully that would make others fall in line. Also, not happening. Ina ddition, the fraud grades have a huge impact. Give a HW, student says fuck you, they get 45 instead of 0. Give a term project, student laughs in your face, they get 45 instead of 0. No way they end up failing.

Anonymous said...

I see kids walking around my HS, haven't done a stitch of work, saying how they got accepted into 21 colleges. How? They cant even write a proper sentence. This girl has nothing but 65s for 4 years, she got a $112K scholarship. They have no ability except to demand things and expect welfare and other entitlements.

Anonymous said...

The students all suck and I can't wait to drop out of the unions, which also suck. This bog sucks because it doesn't even give us opt out links You all suck.

Anonymous said...

Thank you. From All

Anonymous said...

Where’s the old fossil ednotes legend? You are the biggest fool in the world you self righteous radical. Yeah I’ve been telling you for years that teachers are being told to go fuck themselves but here your buddy James agrees with the post article on how teachers are being treated. Look in the mirror and tell yourself how great you are. Put your phone away fuck you do your assignment suck my dick stop talking fuck you old white asshole. Yeah it must be my fault. Stop enabling and start holding holding them accountable. Your radical progressive ideology is ruining our country. That’s right it must be trumps fault. Idiot

Anonymous said...

Let's celebrate student achievement even though they really aren't achieving anything.

Anonymous said...

Just like Mulgrew, James, you are an irrelevant dinosaur.

You are no better. Keyboard activist. Out of touch. Stay retired.

James Eterno said...

6:27, I think you have gone way overboard blaming progressive ideology for discipline issues. Anywhere when there is lawlessness, good people suffer when thugs are allowed to take over. It happens in libertarian paradises like Somalia too.

You can be right, left, center or apolitical and expect a degree of order in the classroom and for teachers to be in charge.

James Eterno said...

Irrelevant dinosaur. That's a new one. If I am so irrelevant, why are you reading this?

James Eterno said...

The DOE is run as a fascist, authoritarian organization in many ways. We are trying to empower workers who are teachers to have a much larger say in running schools. That could be viewed as progressive ideology too but I think most of us, no matter where we stand on the political spectrum, could support teacher empowerment.

James Eterno said...

6:27, You should apologize to Norm for making it personal.

Anonymous said...

Yeah right he should apologize to me for blaming me for students who curse me out. It happens to many of us these days and both you said it never or almost never happened to you. That’s great and I’m glad happy you were subjected to the vile disgusting behavior some of us hard working, dedicated and honorable teachers have to put up with on a constant basis. And to blame me for the actions of students is and was reprehensible. Yeah am an old white guy living in 2019 so I must the racists and the product of white privilege. How stupid has our country become. Please sit down fuck you please put your phone away suck my dick yeah must be my fault. I’m must have used the wrong tone or maybe they can sense I have deep racists tendencies. Fuckin stupid to even suggests the old man ednotes guy. Blame to the teacheg oh that’s right just me you insignificant legend. Radical progressivism is ruining our country and we better wake up before it’s to late. To be fair if radical conversatism was allowed to run amuck like RP is allowed today it would also ruin our country.

James Eterno said...

Asking for a modicum of civility here is not censorship. There is no need to call someone a fossil, an old fool and an idiot to make your point.

Anonymous said...

Just like they call us racists and nazis and blame the teacher for the verbal abuses we are constantly bombarded with. Yeah it’s easy to blame the teacher for the character deficiencies of the students. Just ask the DOE ednotes guy. Those of us who were raised to respect teachers, the rule of law, and have integrity, honor and morals are to blame in a progressive society of poisonous culture diversity and the business of victimization. As an old white guy who are we to impose western cultural morals and standards on others. It’s that the lefts argument? They act this way because they have been taught western standards and morals are racists and are imposed on them to enslave them to western thought? They have been taught to disobey white/ western imposed authority and to disregard the value in it.

James Eterno said...

Two wrongs never made a right. Calling Norm names because kids called you names does not further your argument.

Anonymous said...

Thanks dad talk to norm about it. It’s was norm not the kids calling people who are to the right of him politically to be racist and nazis. The kids just call us white mother fuckers lol. But after all this back and forth the real problems we face as teachers aren’t being addressed and our union that we should opt out of and start anew is still doing nothing

Anonymous said...

The reason there is no discipline code is because the liberals had to stop the blacks from getting suspended.

Anonymous said...

You organizing that opt out and start over movement 1:17? Or just complaining anonymously here?

Anonymous said...

Well,what has been solved? Same discipline issues. HS student cant read and cant write but get the "easy pass." The job continues to worsen.

Anonymous said...

California, a Democrat dominated place...Overwhelmingly, the teachers said the school's discipline model is broken.

At a special meeting Thursday night, Visalia Unified School District teachers resoundingly agreed, saying there is a "crisis" in classrooms across the city.

Parents backed them up on almost every concern.

Just one teacher spoke in favor of the current discipline model.

Like many campuses in California, Visalia Unified School District follows the Positive Behavior Interventions and Supports system when students misbehave or act out.

With PBIS, students are placed in intervention programs, counseling, and alternative programs before a suspension or expulsion is recommended. Teachers say it's rare that a student ever receives support to address their issues. In most cases, they're sent back to class after a brief trip to the office. In some instances, teachers say they are held to answer for why they sent the student, rather than dealing with it themselves.

Visalia Unified began adopting the model in 2013. Teachers had high hopes. They've been met with disappointment.

As incidents on campuses have worsened, teachers and parents are pushing back.
Parents voiced concern with incidents on campus, like a student who told a classmate to "kill yourself" and "getting away with it," one parent said. That student was awarded two weeks later with a Respect award.

One Golden Oak Elementary mother said her daughter's lunch was urinated on and the student responsible was "back at school the next day." Her daughter didn't realize her lunch had been spoiled until she took a bite.
"There are zero consequences at our schools and I think the district needs to put something in place (so) there are consequences," Malika Anaya said. "The district needs to step up."

Teachers told stories about being cussed at, ignored by administrators and evacuating entire classrooms because of one student's tantrum.

A first-grade teacher said one "little guy" kicked things off desks and another student pretended to decapitate another classmate.

Students have gotten so good at evacuating, they never forget to take their computers with them, she said.

Anonymous said...

Good question my anonymous friend. Not sure I have the union experience but I have the experience of being abused by my employer and the union I pay to protect me from that abuse. If you join me we have 2 in the opt out coloum. Like I’ve mentioned in earlier posts our union will never ever change. People much smarter than me in the facets of union organizing must see the long history of uft abuse on its members and the need to create a competitive alternative. Thanks for your comment

Anonymous said...

If you were so smart and your simplistic answers were true, these states below that have the most repressive school discipline policies would be the smartest in the nation. Guess what? They are not.

Go to Alabama my conservative colleague. You can paddle the kids and sorry, they won't learn any more than they do in our wide open no discipline at all NYC schools. https://www.al.com/news/2018/04/paddling_is_legal_in_alabama_b.html

https://www.livesinthebalance.org/punitive-index
It's hard enough being a kid these days, but when it comes to punitive school discipline, some states make it way harder. Using the most currently available data (2013-14) from the U.S. Department of Education, the states in the brightest color red in the map below are those with the highest combined rates of school suspensions, expulsions, use of restraint and seclusion, paddling, arrests at school, and referral to the police. The lightest states are those that are least punitive. Our methodology: we gave the heaviest weighting to hands-on procedures (restraint, seclusion, paddling), police involvement, and expulsion; we gave a slightly lower weighting to out-of-school suspension, and the lowest weighting still to in-school-suspension. We calculated a "Punitive Index" for each state based on the weighted total of punitive interventions relative to the estimated population of children under the age of 18 in the state. (We'll be updating the map once the state-by-state data for 2015-16 are made available.)

Mississippi has the ignominious distinction of being by far the most punitive state in the US, followed by Arkansas, South Carolina, and Alabama. (Scroll over each state to see raw numbers per year for each of the above interventions.) And there is an association between treating kids badly and rates of incarceration of adults. Click here to see incarceration rates by state.

Anonymous said...

Conservative teachers should either go south or to one of Eva Moskowitz Success Academies. They rail about discipline and then stay in schools just for the money. Really fucked up actually.

Anonymous said...

Then, they also scream about government spending as they make $120,000 a year with a generous health plan and pension plan. Why not forgo that government handout called your pension? Go work in a private school.

Anonymous said...

Persinally, I'm quitting before 40 years old. What more could I do?

Anonymous said...

PERSONALLY

Anonymous said...

Excuse me, govt handout? I work for that. I have multiple degrees for that. That is not welfare. That is means tested. Remember, AOC said money for those unable or unwilling to work. Big difference.

Anonymous said...

So why won’t they learn? In the meantime we can agree that students who act in a way that disrupts the educational process and have shown to behave in disrespectful ways be held accountable. Is that a lot to ask for? And yes I’m not that smart but one thing I do know is that when students aren’t immediately held accountable for the actions that undermine a positive school culture it encourages others. Chaos will quickly ensue.

Anonymous said...

You should work till you drop dead. You will be getting a government handout when you retire. We should not have that in our libertarian utopia.

Go work in a private school and practice what you preach my conservative friend.

Eb said...

Democrats so far in 2019:

✅Won't condemn anti-semitism in the House of Reps.

✅Do nothing against a racist Governor who wore black face/klan robe.

✅Do nothing against a Lt. Gov accused of sexual assault.

✅Investigate political opponents with no evidence.

✅Pro-Infanticide

Anonymous said...

122000 plus per session and the pension isn’t a handout it’s an earned benefit. Welfare is a handout. Going to work in a charter or private sector isn’t the answer but fixing the schools we all work hard in is.

Anonymous said...

Nah, I'll quit after I get the last retro payment in 2020.

Anonymous said...

I am so glad we have conservative teachers here. Let's follow Betsy DeVos and end public schools. Make everything charter schools and private schools. Then we can repeal those wasteful teacher pensions so we can cut taxes some more for Jeff Bezos.

We will win eventually and drown government in a bathtub as Grover Norquist said we would.

Anonymous said...

Oh and by the way I’m retiring in 15 months but until I do I will continue to exercise my hard fought first amendment right and welcome an honest and thoughtful debate. I might be for a wall, against abortion and illegal immigration as well as against many other liberal policies and it doesn’t make me a racists or a nazi. It just makes me someone with a different ideology.

Anonymous said...

Libertarian nirvana. Why try to educate those bad kids? Eb, you are the man. More Charter schools like the Post editorial said. And drop out of your stupid union too. Maybe we can get a Republican mayor and turn NYC into New Orleans on the Hudson. No public schools. Great future coming. Fuck the UFT and fuck those pensions lazy teachers get who work half a year and still complain.

Anonymous said...

Just because someone is a conservative doesn’t mean they are in favor of all the policies they support. Unlike other political groups lol. Good try my friend

Anonymous said...

Good try and very interesting

Anonymous said...

How many school days? 180. 6 hour 50 minute day. I bet you don't have to do much grading for those kids you claim are illiterate. But you $100k earning teachers still complain. Now you don't support every conservative policy. Give us a break.

Let these public schools compete. The free market rules. Competition, choice. You will surely be unemployed soon and no longer sucking off the tsxpayers for your half year off. You are a phony conservative.

Anonymous said...

Just because you support every liberal? Progressive? policy doesn’t mean we all are in lockstep. By the way it’s 122000 plus per session. Your try’s are getting better I’m proud of your effort

Anonymous said...

Stop sucking off the taxpayers. I am a rock ribbed Sean Hannity loving Donald Trump supporting Republican. I agree with you that these kids are stupid. You should join Janus in quitting the union and go to work for someone like Eva Moskowitz who knows how to compete and get rid of undeserving students.

Maybe we can get together on one of your many vacations. I work for a living so I don't have quite so many days off. We can listen to Rush together. That would be cool. You make $122,000 and overtime. I'm sure you feel guilty and just can't get a job in the private sector. I work in Walmart without a union and I make $12 an hour. I have a degree too but one day I'm going to be rich. I say lower the tax burden on the the rich. They are the job creators. Let's kill the public schools. Keep telling us how awful your part time $122,000 a year job is. When we win the next election, we will kill the public schools together and those high salaries and bloated pensions for good. You can join me at Walmart. Maybe we can both get a job in a Catholic school and make $40,000 a year. Can't wait till we meet and listen to Rush together or go to one of Trump's rallies and scream together about those damn teacher unions.

It's great to be an American, where at least I know I'm free!

Anonymous said...

MAGA!

Anonymous said...

Let's lobby together to get the charter cap lifted and vouchers for private schools. That liberal Cuomo isn't that bad on education. What did he call it, educational savings accounts? Or is that dear Betsy? Help me my learned conservative friend.

Anonymous said...

Putting politics aside, is it morally right that the students who want to learn but be held back by those who refuse to try?

Im sorry that you were up all night playing fortnite, but theres no reason to play it in class, please put your phone away...YOU CAN SUCK MY DICK! OR COCK!,...please come to class so we can work togeher, FUCK OFF, I DONT NEED NO CLASS...the marking period ends friday can you make these up so i have something to grade? FUCK YOU. Jimmy please dont call tammy names. I CALL THAT HOE WHATEVER I WANT, FUCK YOU, FUCKING CUT YOU.

end result...nothing, except pressure to pass them all.

Anonymous said...

*are held back

Anonymous said...

Sorry not sure what your trying to say. But I do like listening to Rush. What’s your favorite song? Saw them in concert a few years back and they rocked. Believe it or not if you lost your misplaced anger we probably agree a few important issues. Raising the minimum wage, against charter schools, lower taxes on the middle class/ raising them on say 1 million. But hey you seem like you got your shit together. Really good try best one yet

Anonymous said...

For a part time job, you have to put up with some shit from those idiots but you laugh all the way to the bank when that check is direct deposited. That is, until we kill the public schools altogether. No more over paid teachers with fat pensions.

Anonymous said...

You are against school choice then you are no conservative. Let the free market rule.

Anonymous said...

Nothing better than a fired up progressive. Just sit back an enjoy the show

Anonymous said...

That's ok, I've been maxing out all retirement accounts, I resign next year.

Anonymous said...

That’s very narrow minded but hey look who I’m debating on a blog lol

Anonymous said...

15 months until retirement but will fight along side you to kill school privatization

Anonymous said...

It's ok when I'm told that I'm gonna get the shit smacked out of me?

Anonymous said...

Free markets are the foundation of a capitalist nation. If you don't believe in market based answers in education, you are just another liberal, socialist, communist.

Anonymous said...

You should like the public schools if you are a libertarian. Less regulation. Let freedom ring.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the eco lesson and don’t stop believing

Anonymous said...

I meant Rush Limbaugh, not the rock group.

Anonymous said...

Insulting poor belpless Norm? Heaven forfend. The guy who called me a "slug" for years? He can tzke it, i think.

Anonymous said...

Students can do and say whatever they want, but you don't dare respond.

Anonymous said...

Clueless

waitingforsupport said...

Circuitous

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
waitingforsupport said...

@ 2:20 Thanks. I was just about to go out in the rain to buy the newspaper. You saved me a few $. What else do you have smarty pants?!

Anonymous said...

I have that some cant get into BK Tech the legit way so excuses must be made to let them in...

Anonymous said...

Discipline, or lack of discipline comes from a group that is 77% single parent.

James Eterno said...

I can't remove all of them but this went way off the rails here. I am waiting for the onslaught from my friends on letting this one guy hijack the comments. I tried to be flexible but come on.

Do you want comment moderation?

Anonymous said...

No

Jerry said...

James, with all due respect, when we discuss discipline problems, we need to discuss who are the problems. While you may say that black crime isn't exactly on point, there is a pattern with student behavior and lack of success.

Anonymous said...

Not one guy many of feel this way. It didn’t go off the rails and being a conservative doesn’t make us racists or nazis. The left talks about tolerance and that’s all it is talk. Free speech and the free expression of different ideas is the cornerstone of a healthy and vibrant democracy. I’m against abortion and illegal immigration, I’m concerned with school discipline and the lack of fathers in the homes of many of our students. I’m for a wall and the escalation of a huge undereducated and underemployed sector of our country. You libs just want to blog in here and talk about your beliefs Nd ideology and that’s fine but our nation has many opinions and many concerns and many ways to address them. I can go on an on but I’m living in my moms basement and it’s time for Sunday dinner. Lol

Anonymous said...

Easy bro the left would say that certain groups commit more crime based relative to population, are incarcerated more, succeed less, are less likely to have 2 parents in the home, out of wedlock births and all the rest is because of white privilege. The factors most likely to help someone succeed isn’t based on race or ethnicity but on education, waiting to later in life to have children and being married ( not 16 and single) putting needs over wants as well as many other social, economic and educational factors. Let’s stop the charade and tell it like it is. Wow I’m tired exercising my 1st amendment right to free speech. The thought police wants to silence any other narrative and they call us facists. Bring in the respectful debate.

Anonymous said...

Against the escalation my bad

waitingforsupport said...

My my my...like minded...scary scary

Anonymous said...

Or just true

James Eterno said...

When you take a post that is about school safety and post articles about some crazy crime in the Bronx, you are hijacking the post. Constantly posting what people of a certain race do is meant to antagonize the left leaning readers here. It is very divisive and does nothing to further the cause of NYC teachers. I have asked over and over for people to stay on topic but certain people do not respect that wish. Moderation, no comments or suspending the blog again are the options.

I understand the frustration teachers feel. However,I think the answers the right proposes on education (charter schools, vouchers,competition, privatization) will only make the problem worse.

Please deal with this in an education context. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Why would the truth antagonize anyone? Certain groups have generational challenges and those challenges spill into the educational system causing the need for a change in the DOE’s discipline policies. Is that better for you James? Let’s debate how we can correct those generational challenges so that we as teachers can get back to what we are certified to do. I’m sorry you missed the connection. living in my moms basement has made my writing less concise

Anonymous said...

Aren't societal problems similar to school discipline problems?

Anonymous said...

I think you misunderstand. It's not charter, privatization...Its also not to bother the left...It's to uncover fraud and open eyes as to what the real problem is and who causes most problems.

Anonymous said...

When you say "who causes most problems" that means Black and Latino kids. Dog whistles. It's rightspeak and it is so easy to see through. We get you. We really do.

Anonymous said...

But don't they? Isn't that statistically proven?

Anonymous said...

You made my point. You don't even see your racial bias which is really kind of sad.