The New York City Independent Budget Office on October 11, 2019 released its latest public school indicators report. Thanks to Harry Lirtzman for sending it out to me. The statistics are somewhat revealing. I focused on the sections on teachers and principals which mostly cover the decade from 2005 to 2015 so we can see the impact of the Klein-Bloomberg years. The data shows that NYC teachers are much more likely to leave the system than principals. Principals, as we all suspected, have excellent job retention rates.
Let's first examine the teacher retention numbers. The overall turnover back in 2000-2001 was 79% of new teachers survived year one and came back, while after five years only 52% stayed in the system and after ten years it was just 44%.
The 2002, 2005, and 2006 contracts with all of their givebacks, which basically destroyed the job for many veteran teachers, did help with teacher retention as major salary increases were included in all three contracts. (I know, I know that much of the increases were time for money swaps but hey it was still more money.) Here are the retention numbers for teachers hired in 2004-05. 86% were still in the system after a year while 56% made it for five years and 47% lasted a decade. The difference in teachers lasting a decade from 44% to 47% isn't that great but the needle moved.
The numbers for 2013-14 reveal that 60% stayed up to five years. We have to concede more teachers were staying in the system in 2014 compared to 2001 when teachers maxed out at $70,000 a year.
I guess that those hired at the height of the Great Recession were more likely not to have great job prospects outside of teaching. We have yet to see current five year retention statistics to see how the inferior Tier VI pension system, the stronger economy, the extra year to achieve tenure or the new evaluation system have impacted on teacher retention.
We also learn from the IBO that 60% of teachers in 2014 who went through traditional teacher training programs stayed in their original school after four years but only 41% of Teaching Fellows and a very tiny 24% of Teach for America teachers were still in their original school after four years. Teach for America teachers truly are mostly temps.
Now we go to the retention statistics for NYC principals. In 2008-2009, at the height of the Klein-Bloomberg principal empowerment years, 100% of principals were still in the system a year after their first assignment. That figure held pretty steady as 99% stayed over a year by 2013-14. The five year retention rate for the 2009-2010 cohort was 82%. That is a pretty healthy retention rate.
The IBO report also shows that the number of general ed teachers in NYC went down from 2007 (62,867) to 2015 (54,008) while special education doubled from around 11,000 to 22,000 during roughly the same time period. This is somewhat surprising as it seems special education services were denied or withdrawn much more compared to the pre-Joel Klein years. The overall number of teachers peaked at 78,862 in 2008-09. It dropped steadily but recovered a little after Bloomberg left office. The latest year covered by this report is 2014-15 where there were 75,040 teachers. My guess is the proliferation of charter schools is the cause of the decline.
On the other hand, nobody will be astonished to learn that the number of principals rose from 1,443 in 2005 to 1,726 in 2015 and that principals in 2015 had less teaching experience than in 2005. More small schools means lots more principal jobs.
For anyone who wants to use this data to argue that the unions are not doing their jobs, maybe you should look at the Council of Supervisors and Administrators as a more successful union than the UFT. It pains me to type that.
20 comments:
Society is deteriorating, that is why teachers quit.
Admins want to stay working in NYC because they love the power they hold over us lowly teachers.
None of that really surprises me. It seems as though being principal in the NYC school system puts you on a totally different playing field than being a teacher does. As a principal you have a blank check to do pretty much whatever you want and never have to worry about getting canned. A teacher on the other hand, has to walk through hot coals all throughout his or her career to even hope of having a chance of survival in the hells of the DOE. I was wrongfully discontinued by a principal who by all accounts absolutely should have been fired for all his wrongdoings. His name and the history of what he did to "his" school has been disseminated all over the internet embarrassing all of us teachers there and even many students there as well. Yet to date, he's still there and many people left. I could never be principal in the DOE despite the obvious jobs perks of having immunity from almost anything because it conflicts with my moral compass.
When I was in high school I worked in a supermarket where everyone except management were unionized. The theory behind this was that management was held to a higher standard than the workers so if management screwed up or did something untoward, they were out. It was that simple. After all, the well being of the store rests on their actions and decisions they make. In the shitty bizarre world of the DOE, not only is the principal in a union, but it happens to be an even "better" union than the teacher.
Yes, I recognize that having public administration members in unions is good public policy....but what we're seeing and hearing about in the news repeatedly regarding unscrupulous principals who harm their schools so goddamn absurd.
My spouse is an AP And I'm a teacher. We both agree that both UFT and CSA work in a flawed DOE system. However, the difference is CSA doesnt expend energy fighting internally, calling media, and writing spiteful and angry blogs like you James and our other UFT colleagues.
That energy is spent more productively. My spouse always says what if an admin pulls an Eterno and blogs about teachers by name and villifys them like you do with or without all the facts. Treat others how you want to be treated.
CSA would rather not waste their time but use that energy to fight for their own.
We UFT members could learn from CSA as you suggested James since they are more successful than we are.
Years ago a veteran teacher told me that teachers outlast principals, principals out last superintendents, and superintendents outlast chancellors. Yes, times really have changed.
Here is the deal: If, and I mean if, you can tolerate crazy admins and wild kids on a daily basis, teaching for the DOE can be a great career. We are the highest paid teachers in the country. We have an awesome TDA. (Even though it was reduced a few years back) We can bank up to 200 sick days. We have a defined pension plan. Many teachers, including myself in tier 4 can retire at 55. However, I feel very bad for the newbies in tier 6. They have a long and hard battle to make it to retirement. Yes, we have lost a shit ton of contract battles due to the inept UFT selling us out on seniority based transfers, etc. However, I know how bad it is way worse for many teachers in other areas of the country. We have a pretty decent career path if we can be hardcore and push through it all. And please don't think I am a Unity hack. I am just as pissed as everyone else on how the UFT is a paper tiger with no balls.
If the job market wasn't so horrible for other college graduates, then the teacher attrition rates would be much higher. In the post "Great Recession automate everything" economy, there aren't as many job prospects for many workers. Give the oligarchs time though...They will figure out a way to create robots or computer software to manage a classroom full of children.
We are not the highest paid teachers in the country. Check out Yonkers to see where they make more and other suburbs make more too. Factor in the cost of living in the New York area and we are not that highly paid although my family had a decent middle class lifestyle with my wife and I as teachers. As to the CSA not fighting, they don't have to. Principals were anointed as basically infallible by Joel Klein and Michael Bloomberg and that has for the most part continued under Bill de Blasio. The CSA doesn't have to fight. The UFT needs to fight and does not. Big difference.
To 9:30 AM poster: Admins in CSA are wrongfully held to a totally different set of standards than their UFT counterparts. So for you to suggest that one is doing something right that the other is not, and should emulate is erroneous.
Did you ever entertain the idea that perhaps if many admins at the top did the right thing then there would not be a need for people like Eric, Norman, or James to write such blogs? BTW, I don't see these blogs as being spiteful. I think that they exist simply to publicize all of the abuses that the DOE would other wise not want us to know about. If you and your wife are happy working in the DOE and can tolerate all the DOE evils then more power to you.
The "treat others the way you want to be treated saying" applies to you as well. If you don't agree with these blogs, then simply don't read them, instead of condoning the blog writers without having any knowledge of what you're talking about. In that case nobody wants to hear your opinion.
To 9:30 AM poster: Admins in CSA are wrongfully held to a totally different set of standards than their UFT counterparts. So for you to suggest that one is doing something right that the other is not, and should emulate is erroneous.
Did you ever entertain the idea that perhaps if many admins at the top did the right thing then there would not be a need for people like Eric, Norman, or James to write such blogs? BTW, I don't see these blogs as being spiteful. I think that they exist simply to publicize all of the abuses that the DOE would other wise not want us to know about. If you and your wife are happy working in the DOE and can tolerate all the DOE evils then more power to you.
The "treat others the way you want to be treated saying" applies to you as well. If you don't agree with these blogs, then simply don't read them, instead of condemning the blog writers without having any knowledge of what you're talking about. In that case nobody wants to hear your opinion.
"Years ago a veteran teacher told me that teachers outlast principals, principals out last superintendents, and superintendents outlast chancellors. Yes, times really have changed.”
I’m on my 4th Principal, 5th AP, 6th Superintendent, and I lost count of Chancellors….
And, I’m not going anywhere…..
Love my benefits but hate my job. Only reason I am still teaching in NYC is my pension that I will get at age 55.
The statistics show you are in the minority 1:23. Majority of teachers don't last a decade in NYC.
Playing devils advocate here:so only admin does abusive or wrong things?
Why doesnt James publicize the wrongs of teachers as well if he is simply about sharing facts and information. Like ICT teachers who do nothing or teachers who verbally and sexually abuse students in my school.
I know I wont be ok with admin creating blogs about teachers period, even if they are doing it for the same reasons James does it.
Lastly, to assume that CSA union has nothing to fight for is ignorant unless you were once a member James.
It's like the public saying teachers have easy jobs with paid summers. Ignorant!
The DOE pressure on admin to get graduation rates up at all costs ia real which may be why principals have been pressured to falsify data. That right there tells me admin is not as easy as it looks James.
Administration did leak names of teachers to press. Two of them were my colleagues. They turned out okay.
Look at the retention numbers which was the point of this post. Principals have incredibly high one year retention rates. You cannot get higher than 100% or much higher than 99%. If they are removed, they keep a job in the system. I think the same courtesy and respect should apply to teachers. This blog has not called for principal terminations. We believe the 3020a process should only be used for extreme cases, not to settle personal scores as is too often the case when it is used against teachers. Ask people at the Office of Labor Relations and they will privately concede that many times teachers are disciplined for purely personal reasons.
When it comes to fighting DOE, principals can do pretty much what they want if they are ignoring the UFT contract and not only will they be backed up by DOE, they can have a lawyer representing them. Who do teachers get for a grievance rep? A teacher like themselves. That's fair? I worked for a principal who had DOE legal on speed dial.I am quite content that I outlasted him.
As for falsifying data, don't do it teacher or principal. Case closed. There are plenty of gray areas in regs that can be played with to help move kids along. Nothing to discuss here.
Doing woes be me for principals is a bit hard to swallow, particularly here, but if it makes you happy, go right ahead.
Principals are under so much pressure. And the consequences for them not falsifying grades? Look at IBO numbers, there are none. I have seen idiotic comments here but 6:04's comment may be as dumb as the guy who brags every other day how he doesn't pay union dues. Both of you should get together.
If you know of a teacher sexually abusing students 6:04, why aren't you letting someone know about it? Isn't that a crime?
to 6:04 YOU ARE AWARE OF SEXUAL ABUSE???? IT NEEDS TO BE REPORTED NOW. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE TO REPORT ABUSE. YOU BECOME AN ACCESSORY BY NOT REPORTING IT. PLEASE DON'T LET CHILDREN BE ABUSED AND DO NOTHING BUT POST IT HERE. WE CANNOT HELP WE DO NOT KNOW WHERE AND BY WHOM. PROTECT THESE CHILDREN. REPORT IT TODAY!!!!!!!
Anyone who has taken an administrative position within the last 25 years has known what he or she was getting into. The pressure for principals in NYC to be an immoral, corrupt megalomaniacs started around 2002.
fact of the matter is bloomberg made any joe smoe a principal back when he was mayor and now they are all around like mice and men
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