Saturday, November 07, 2020

WHILE WE WATCH ENDLESS VOTE COUNTING, COVID IS SPREADING AND SOME AREA SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE GOING OR STAYING ALL REMOTE INCLUDING SUCCESS ACADEMY

As the country monitors the endless election count where the candidate who leads the popular vote by over 4 million votes has to wait to claim victory thanks to the obsolete, unfair to the point of almost being like a UFT election,  Electoral College system, the COVID-19 pandemic rages on. School systems in the area are going or staying all remote but not NYC public schools, where parents are being encouraged in at least one case to send their kids back to buildings.

From News Today:

Success Academy, the city’s largest charter school network, will extend all-remote learning through at least March of 2021, the network announced Friday.

The decision was made to avoid any disruption to schooling, according to Success CEO Eva Moskowitz, who cited uncertainty about a resurgence of the coronavirus and the possibility of sudden school closures.

Notably, Moskowitz also argued that fully remote learning is the best way to ensure that students receive quality teaching during the pandemic, and avoid some of the pitfalls of having to create two different versions of school at once, remotely and in person. It is a stark departure from the city’s district schools, which have invested heavily in reopening physical school buildings, but have struggled to staff both in-person and virtual classes and have yet to attract most students back to classrooms.

“It is not at all clear that this version of schooling would be better than the quality we can produce with strong remote learning,” Success officials wrote in a letter to families. “While district schools are open and a small number of students can physically be on campus, students are often being taught remotely by teachers who are not in the classroom with them. This is not our vision of great schooling.”

I don't often agree with the charter school queen but staying remote is sensible policy.

There are public school systems in the area that are also not willing to unnecessarily risk the health of teachers and staff and are going fully remote. This is from NJ.com:

Clifton’s school district will switch all facilities to remote learning on Monday with officials citing a sharp rise in coronavirus cases in the Passaic County city as well as COVID-19 positive tests for 12 students and four school staff members in the last week.

A decision will be made in January 2021 on when to reopen schools in the district, which had just resumed in-person classes on Oct. 12, Danny A. Robertozzi, superintendent of schools said in a letter to the community. Clifton’s district is among the largest in the state with more than 10,000 students across 20 schools.

Newark is fully remote too until early 2021.

In NYC, cases of COVID-19 are rising. This data is from the NY Times:

At least 7 new coronavirus deaths and 1,202 new cases were reported in New York City on Nov. 6. Over the past week, there has been an average of 880 cases per day, an increase of 46 percent from the average two weeks earlier.

As of Saturday morning, there have been at least 273,386 cases and 24,054 deaths in New York City since the beginning of the pandemic, according to a New York Times database.

That second wave is here. Now is the time to hunker down to contain the spread but what did I get from my son's elementary school? A letter pushing me to return my son to the building.

We have reopened our school building safely and welcomed back our students and families. It is great to see their eager young faces smiling as they return to their blended learning classes in person. We are practicing health and safety guidelines and have had a successful transition. As the COVID-19 infection rates have stayed markedly low citywide and in our school, we know many of you are considering having your child return to school for in-person learning. If you previously chose full-time remote learning for your child, now is your chance to opt into blended learning for the remainder of the school year! You only have until November 15th 2020!

The school needs to look at the NY Times. We are experiencing record COVID-19 cases in this country. We don't need advertisements for blended learning. On the other hand, my daughter's school, to their credit, just sent a very neutral letter advising us of the open period.

102 comments:

Anonymous said...

But keep paying dues everybody

Anonymous said...

I guess James should be praised for not giving up hope that nyc teachers will miraculously grow a spine but I don’t have any hope. Nyc teachers have proven over and over again that they will eat every shit sandwich served up, politely dab the corners of their mouths with napkins when done and say thank you sir may I please have some more. We’re toast. I’ve earned my full pension already. I’ll spend my time taking care of me and watching the sheep get slaughtered as I add more to my retirement income, I’m done caring about perpetual victims who can’t even demand they are kept safe.

Anonymous said...

The ballots are still being counted, but Joe Biden is already declaring he has a "mandate" on "systemic racism" and AOC is creating a list of people to purge from public life.

Scratch a progressive, find a totalitarian.

Anonymous said...

Congrats. Now come the next excuses why certain people can't excel with biden...

Anonymous said...

Dumb question...What exactly is the difference now that biden won? How does that anything for anybody? Is my life as a teacher better?

Anonymous said...

I just hope to hell they finally give us that Early Retirement Incentive. Realistically, I know it wouldn't happen until June. I would just like to see some movement on it, instead of more rumors. Biden will probably bail out the city somewhat, but not completely. Close the hole by helping to send us vets packing on our own terms.

Not ready to Die said...

12:46 I agree with what you are saying. Mayor /Chancellor/ UFT politics plays the greatest role in our day to day lives as public school teachers.

Biden will be much more in tune with scientists instead of Twitter followers .

I am not a social media guy at all. I just recently started to post on this blog. .. Do other world leaders tweet the the frequency of our previous president ?

Anonymous said...

So now the bidrn is giving us a huge stimulus we can get the retro in February, right?

Anonymous said...

Lol to those who think devos leaving makes a difference. What happened the previous 20 years?

Anonymous said...

I can't wait for 1, 2, 3, 4 years from now when people are still complaining.

Anonymous said...

Now there will be no grade fraud, right? And students will respect us and show up to school. And students won't curse or threaten us. And will have some self responsibility. And we will get legit raises. Right?

Not ready to Die said...

2:19
I can not wait for the Early Retirement Incentive so I can walk away from this mess. Getting off the job will have a positive impact on my life.

How will people complaining in 1,2,3, 4 years help you OR OUR COUNTRY ?

Shelley said...

Cuomo’s Plan ‘B’ for New York’s Budget Gap? He’s Betting All on Biden

THE CITY

Some fiscal experts say the governor’s course is reckless. They note the combined budget deficits of the state, city and the MTA total $88 billion over four years and that federal aid will not come close to filling the hole — no matter who wins the presidential election.

Meanwhile, the specter of the Republicans retaining hold of the U.S. Senate spells more trouble for New York, the experts say.

https://www.thecity.nyc/2020/11/5/21551804/cuomo-new-york-biden-fiscal-budget-deblasio-pandemic

Anonymous said...

Let the celebratory looting begin! The king is dead, long live the king! I hope things will be better with Mr. Malarkey, but I have strong doubts. They are dancing in the streets up here in Hudson and it 74 degrees, excuse me while powder my nose.

Anonymous said...

If they continue to let the loudest few of the democratic party continue to scream "socialism", "defund the police," and "green new deal" it will be in 2 years when they are complaining after the republicans take over the House.

Anonymous said...

If the republicans keep senate, what makes someone think they will approve dem city bailouts. Trump was pushing the number higher, repub senate was not in favor. There was a bit of a red wave in the house, progressives not in strong position right now. The corporate neo libs almost in the Whitehorse. The Republican keep senate. Now you have an executive branch and a senate that both despise progressives. Leaked dem phone call shows the resentment. The more AOC et al try to push Biden left will set the stage for more republicans to flip house seats next time. Right now it’s a love fest among the Dems. It won’t last once AOC figures out she’s not getting what she wants.

waitingforsupport said...

Whoo hooo

Anonymous said...

Congratulations to LAME DUCK DONALD. In this contest there is no consolation prize for ALSO RAN.

Anonymous said...

Donald Trump is a LOSER.
He is the worst type of LOSER.
Donald Trump is a SORE LOSER.

Tom said...

4:44 - what happens with the "dems" are none of your concern. Your lost - get over it.

Tom said...

^5 @ waitingforsupport

Anonymous said...

Teaching from be us ok...
The United Federation of Teachers sees no problem with the odd locations.

“Teachers are working in many creative ways to provide instruction to their remote students,” a spokesperson said.

The DOE could cite no rules or restrictions on where teachers can conduct lessons.

“New York City teachers have been incredibly dedicated in their classrooms and remotely, delivering rigorous education to our students, and we expect they will exercise their best judgment while doing so, “said spokeswoman Danielle Filson.

Anonymous said...

Let AOC and the far left progressives ruin the our party and the republicans will continue to take seats? Why is this important? Because conservatives LOVE charter schools and hate us.

Anonymous said...

If only teachers could remove our very own Trump manifestation, Mulgrew, from the UFT. Democracy loses on a daily basis in our sham of a union.

Anonymous said...

If they are wiping 50k of college debt and I paid for college do they buy me a car or pay off my mortgage?

Anonymous said...

Teaching may not change much but at least we'll have our lives. Under Trump, Covid just keeps getting worse and worse and instead of spending his time, energy and funding on Covid, he is going to spend it all on litigation to try to prove voter fraud. If he really cared about the country he would concede and stop being a sore loser. Anyone who supports him is as crazy as he is.

Anon2323 said...

I predict Trump wins Arizona, only down 18,000 with 125k left. Trump will win the recount in Georgia. Penn is up in the air and Trump has NC. Dems can't say a word because roles reversed shoe on the other foot they would be doing the same thing except the streets would be looted.

Imagine republican states not allowing poll watchers, boarding up windows, cheering when poll watchers get asked to leave, seeing videos of poll workers filling in ballots and throwing them away. This is not a democracy, this is secrecy and the USSR now.

Anonymous said...

No question the packed crowds in NYC today are a cause for Covid superspreader concern. Our Mayor and Governor were remarkably silent regarding this. Do they care about our Heath?

Anonymous said...

If January Regents are cancelled, does that mean Regents exam credit for everyone?

Anonymous said...

This is going to be fun. Dem infighting..... killing each other. Grab the popcorn, everyone.

James Eterno said...

Trump is losing by over 4 million votes nationally. That is a fairly wide margin and not all fraudulent votes. Even if he wins all of his challenges in court, he will have zero legitimacy. Think about it, if he scores an electoral college victory given to him by judges he appointed, this country will be torn apart.

Just look where the remaining ballots are coming from, places like NY and California have plenty out, Trump may end up losing by 5 million popular votes. Biden is closing in on 51%. I don't even want to think about that scenario of Trump overturning this. For the good of the country, please get over it.

John Kerry had his team of lawyers ready to challenge Ohio in 2004 but he was losing by millions of votes nationally and looked ridiculous. He conceded. I remember the black box voting conspiracy theories back then when the Democrats accused the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio of stealing it. Al Gore had a legitimate claim in 2000 but he gave up in the end when the Supreme Court made what the left felt was a terrible decision. Sometimes, you just have to move on. Even Fox is looking at this like it's over although they are covering the court cases.

Anon2323 said...

JAMES HE GETS ALL THE POPULAR VOTES FROM POPULAR STATES AS NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA PLEASE STOP WITH THIS RIDICULOUS POPULAR VOTE RHETORIC!

Maybe the media should not have called this so quick. Gore waited 37 days in 1 state! This is 5! Nobody here can tell me the 138,000-0 overnight votes only for Biden or the 23,000-0 Biden only does not look nefarious. Dems cheated it wasn't Russia interference on election results it was the dirty dems who are worse than North Korea and Russia combined!

Unknown said...

Why are people consistently down on this site? A Biden/Harris victory is great news. Joy opens one’s heart and brings hope and healing. You really have to believe sometimes.

Anonymous said...

And rules apply from June. If students pass all the classes associated with the regents, then yes. Obviously January is usually for students who fail, so how many students will pass a term 1 class and have all their credits for the regents to be applied? Not too many. June is the big one.

Anonymous said...

While the packed and screaming large mobs of folks supporting Biden in NYC last night were not nearly as violent and destructive as the left wing BLM/Antifa riots of this summer one has to remember there is a pandemic and those are super-spreader activities. If we want to be taken seriously in pointing out that Covid is a deadly threat, we've got to loudly and repeatedly condemn large dense crowds no matter the underlying motivations.

Anonymous said...

Love how they keep saying they aren't letting poll watchers watch. There are literally live camera feeds and Republicans and democrats in every room. The ruling in Pennsylvania was just to let them move closer 6 ft in the same room. It's all the narrative to get people to think something is going on. As soon as the judges ask the republicans if they were in the room and did they notice any fraud, they all say no, and that's why cases are getting dismissed. They are covering windows to prevent people from taking pictures because you know, your name and address are showing? Isn't that for your protection? I mean there are still people inside watching Lolol when this all gets settled in court and it becomes final, then you can say to yourself, ok guess I can't believe everything from a meme or from what you read.. Ever hear something like that before? Cmon people, you're smarter than that. This is all to create and continue division. Let the process continue like it always does, after the audits, after the recounts, after the court dismissals, you can chill out and accept it. Then if you don't like the policies going forward? Go out and protest, go out and vote local, go out and start getting involved instead of complaining. Stop blaming 75 million people for it. Our country is split in half. One side can't be "right" and the otherside wrong. We are friends and family, even though we have different opinions, we should always try to find middle ground. America is at its greatest when both sides find common ground and compromise. That's the America we need. We don't need a one side America. We don't need a left America or a right America. We have been catering to one side for 4 years.. I hope to God we don't cater to the other side for another 4. Happy veterans day this week to all the veterans out there. We thank you.

Anonymous said...

Biden's victory (abetted in no small part from a huge war chest, numerous election modifications in certain states, and a three year anti-Trump press crusade) marks the triumph of an extraordinarily low profile, little travelled, and carefully scripted campaign strategy.

Presumably he'll continue to receive an unprecedented lack of challenges from the press BUT the Republicans in the Senate will certainly remember what they consider to be the very recent bad faith efforts (Russia collusion narratives, Ukrainian-related impeachment, and race-baiting) of his party. Beyond that, the margins have significantly narrowed in the House. So, notwithstanding the parlor bets on whether he'll serve out the four-year term or not, well see if much changes.

waitingforsupport said...

@Tom

^5. There are leaders in charge now. The child has been removed from the room.

@10:50pm...
Trump has Guilani and Bernie Kerik (a person who married his cuz and a criminal) yelling "fraud". Look in 4 years there will be another election. Trump lost this one. The people have spoken. Im amazed at how you can not see how harmful and dangerous his behavior was to the country. You went off when you "thought" someone compared Trump to Hitler (which they did not). You said you had family who died. (That should never have happened.) I guess you only have compassion and concern about your own family. The danger with that is if people come for you, you may be standing alone. Why must you group people together? You're repeating the same nonsense that Trump's team is saying. This election is over.Periodt! Trump lost fair and square. Oooh the celebration is much needed: i love the diversity of it all. Yazzzzzz. I love it. Now either Trump walks his losing ARCE out with dignity or he can be dragged out. To Trump...Bye Felicia.

Bronx ATR said...

There’s a big problem when the media is allowed to inaugurate a president, like what was done yesterday. People need to be gracious in a perceived victory as presumptive losers should be in loss. As much as people want Trump gone, the crap that played out yesterday was wrong. The count isn’t complete and we know what happens with media induced assumptions - and don’t forget what year we are in. If something bizarre or incredulous can happen, it will happen during 2020. You’re correct James, this could tear the country apart - but should democracy be put on hold over the threat of violence from the very people who claim to be progressives, liberals and non- violent gun haters? In my opinion, it should not be - count the votes and officially announce a winner.

Anonymous said...

Look at the minority vote. Jumped in republican support. Democrats slowing becoming the white men and white women party while us minorities are not accepting this new wave of wokeism expecting education

Tom said...

@James - do you really think his supporters care anything about tearing this country apart? They've been doing exactly that for the past 12 years. Steven Bannon was appointed right hand man, placed at the top of the National Security Council, until he was booted from that, and he advocated destroying our system of government. They are trying to set Biden up for being an illegitimate President just as they did with Obama before him. Already on Day 1 scheming, and plotting how they can keep Biden from making any progress, so they can then whine some more that he hasn't done what he promised.

Nevermind his supporters getting over it, they won't, and who cares but are you going to allow your board to be used as a platform to spread propaganda lies about fraud? Republicans were allowed to be poll watchers and they are on record as correcting the lie that they weren't allowed in but there is the resident, legend in his own mind WHINER, wailing LIES about videos that poll workers threw out ballotS when there was ONE to be found to be an instruction sheet (based on the size).

Anonymous said...

Has there been at least some fraud? Yes. Enough to turn the election? I don't know. Is fraud ok? No.

James Eterno said...

It is a democracy or a republic. Take your pick. The person who gets the most votes should win. Ridiculous popular vote rhetoric? One person= one vote is how it is supposed to work. The country would be torn completely apart by another popular vote winner who wins by 4-5 million more votes not winning. Our votes in NY should matter as much as Vermont's or anywhere else.

Tom said...

At least the country won't be subjected to Trump's psychotic verbal abuses on a daily basis. He's a pig, foul, like a 2 yr. old with no filter. Giving directives to military leaders via tweet. Complete madness. Apparently some of his supporters can be bought on the cheap - as long as they got a bigger tax break (if that's even true), they don't care that the country has become a cesspool. Their voter suppression effort blew up in their faces. They didn't want mail-in votes to be counted before election day. Then they didn't want them counted after election day. Hell they didn't want them counted at all. They've been the ones engaging in fraud the entire time.

Tom said...

138,000-0 DEBUNKED:

"A since deleted tweet posted by Matt Mackowiak, a conservative commentator and chair of Texas' Travis County Republican Party, appears to show that during one results update in Michigan, Joe Biden received 100% of newly counted votes. Attached to the tweet were two election maps appearing to show election results from earlier in the count and one from later. Mackowiak said he took the screenshots early this morning. Mackowiak acknowledged the posts were inaccurate. He has since deleted the tweet, explaining, "I have now learned the MI update referenced was a typo in one county."

Tom said...

Regarding the comparisons to Hitler: Has he not called for the arrest of his opponents. Used authoritarian tactics? Demonized groups of people? Used strong arm tactics. Ripped children from mothers? So he hasn't built the ovens - do we have to wait for that before we can see the comparisons?

"Genocides — and dictatorships, for that matter — do not spring into existence. Rather, they begin incrementally, with authoritarianism, racism, ethnic myths and dehumanizing language, among other things. This is where Holocaust comparisons can and should be made. Lipstadt is absolutely correct that care and accuracy are paramount. It is precisely this care and accuracy that more scholars should bring to the public square."

:Trump’s well-documented use of dehumanizing language is another clear similarity to the early stages of Nazi rule. He caters to a particular demographic of unhappy voters, as did the Nazis. After all, his “America First” rallying cry was “the motto of Nazi-friendly Americans in the 1930s.” Moreover, his support or, at best, toleration of modern Nazi groups in the United States, epitomized by his relativist “blame on both sides” comment after the demonstrations in my hometown of Charlottesville last August, indicates that the history of the Holocaust and the Nazis must continue to be part of our critique. The Nazis who descended on Charlottesville screamed “Blood and soil!” — the same racist slogan as their counterparts in Germany."

"Politically, the president has certainly taken actions which are in many ways parallel to those of the early Nazi movement. As Evans rightly notes, his propaganda machine would be immediately familiar to Joseph Goebbels’s Nazi office. The recent executive order making administrative law judges political appointees subject to executive power cannot be seen as anything less than an attempt to bring the courts in line with the administration’s political ideology. The Nazis called this “Gleichschaltung,” or coordination'

James Eterno said...

Tom, I do think some of the 70 million plus that voted Trump care about not tearing the country apart.

If you show like you did how something someone put on a comment is not true rather than censoring it, you make a bigger statement.

James Eterno said...

Trump is no Hitler. If he was a wanna be Hitler, he did a lousy job at it.

Tom said...

@12:18 - whether they care or not they are certainly ENABLING it when they continue with the lie. Even Christie is on TV right now saying if there's fraud "show us..don't expect us to blindly follow".

And yeah - I did post some comments debunking the lies, so I guess if no one is around or doesn't feel like taking the time to post a rebuttal your blog is just filled with propaganda lies which is being done to delegitimize an election. Not to say the person posting the lies even understands that what they are posting are lies - they're just posting what they've heard on right wing propaganda media.

waitingforsupport said...

@8:39 am...
Yes there has been a pandemic for many months. Trump is on the golf course as the number of cases climb. Thank God we have an adult in charge Now.

Tom said...

@James - it has to start SOMEWHERE. It was a long post but the article fully explains the comparisons so I'd rather go by what HISTORIANS and other researchers have written on the topic.

waitingforsupport said...

@8:45am
^5 ^5
One America. That's it.

waitingforsupport said...

@9:03 am...
Remember the "you lie" comment tossed at Pres. Obama? How about the 12 yr birther movement by Trump & friends? Hey don't forget the refusal to even allow his Supreme Court nominee to move forward? Trump and allies can certainly dish it out. Puh-lese. Let's try this again: One America. Let's try to get better.

Tom said...

Lol @ Gore waited 37 days. "the networks put Florida back into the “Undecided” column. Then, just after 2 a.m., they gave the state, and the presidency, to Bush. Gore called Bush to concede and headed to the War Memorial Auditorium to make a concession speech."

"But new information soon became available, and within the hour, Gore called Bush to retract his concession, saying: “Circumstances have changed dramatically since I first called you.” With only a few thousand votes separating the two candidates, Florida was very much in play."

Gore is not Trump, and neither is Bush. They weren't saying all along that the only way the election is legitimate is if they win and then "claiming" states that weren't called for them. There was no reason for Biden to wait.

James Eterno said...

Then, give us the link to the full article Tom, please.

I usually steer away from Hitler analogies as they are kind of overused and I do not want to trivialize what Hitler did.

Trump was getting impeached less than a year ago so, no, he never took over in any way, shape or form like Hitler did. When the pandemic hit, the country needed strong, bold leadership and the country wanted a strong man (see Cuomo popularity as an example). Trump was totally not up to the job.

The last four years, or for that matter 40 years, will not go down as a golden era in American history but I am hopeful it will not be seen as the beginning of American fascism.

Tom said...

NOBODY is trivializing what Hitler did. And you are wrong that is not going to be seen as the beginning of fascism. Many historians that I read would say that we were IN IT, not going TOWARDS IT. So we dodged a bullet. And if you don't think that he took over in any way or shape or form, that I don't know what to tell you, since the examples are right there. And it's not just about Trump, but the people he has surrounded himself with - like Miller, and Barr, and Bannon (although he was booted out when he claimed that the Trump Tower meeting was treason). Whatever.

James Eterno said...

Our institutions held, albeit barely but we still have real structural problems. I said I was hopeful, not confident on the future. There is a difference. This is 40 years of conservatism-plutocracy, neoliberalism. Call it what you like.

I just read Thomas Frank's Guardian piece on the election. As usual, he is on the money.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/07/trump-defeat-election

Best paragraph:
But the biggest consequence of the Democrats’ shabby experiment is one we have yet to reckon with: it has coincided with a period of ever more conservative governance. It turns out that when the party of the left abandons its populist traditions for high-minded white-collar rectitude, the road is cleared for a particularly poisonous species of rightwing demagoguery. It is no coincidence that, as Democrats pursued their professional-class “third way”, Republicans became ever bolder in their preposterous claim to be a “workers’ party” representing the aspirations of ordinary people."

You see this in the comments here all the time.





Bronx ATR said...

Please you guys, Trump is no Hitler; he Winston Churchill and very proud of it, too.

James Eterno said...

He is no Hitler or Churchill. When Chuchill lost the election in 1945, he became leader of the opposition. He didn't send Rudy Giuliani and Bernard Kerik Kerik types out to cry foul.

Tom said...

ROFL @ Churchill comparisons:

"The comparison doesn't hold up since Churchill left his country in no doubt of the challenge ahead when he became prime minister in 1940, warning of an "ordeal of the most grievous kind" and adding, "We have before us many, many long months of struggle and suffering." Trump never came close to a similar steeling of national resolve at the start of the pandemic. His choice to look away from the threat and hope it would just pass actually has more in common with another British Prime Minister of the era, Neville Chamberlain, who elected not to confront the rising Nazi menace in 1938 in appeasement policies that many historians believe squandered a chance to stop Adolf Hitler before he reached a point of maximum danger." (CNN)

But Forbes does see some similarities:

"Both men were chronic debtors. As banker turned historian David Lough points out in No More Champagne: Churchill and His Money, the man was always in need of more funds, even as Prime Minister, it took the deft dealings of wealthy friends (patrons really) to keep the old man solvent. Trump has been bankrupt six times.

A similarity between the two, yes, but where it matters most, Trump is a distant second to Churchill when it comes to national purpose. Trump is first and foremost a crowd pleaser out for self-aggrandizement and himself first. Churchill was never a favorite, especially among his own class and was seen as an ambitious climber, but he was a politician who put national salvation first.

There is one great difference that must be noted. Churchill was always magnanimous in victory. Never one to gloat, he heaped praise on those he defeated. He was he who gave the eulogy for Neville Chamberlain who died of cancer shortly after losing the PM-ship to Churchill.

"Trump by contrast is like a schoolyard bully who taunting his foes, be they Republican or Democratic. His hectoring of Hillary Clinton is unparalleled in recent American history. Presidents do not disparage publicly those they bested electorally."

"Trump is a man who wallows in the darkest motives of his times to divide a nation as a means to gaining power. Churchill was a man who rose above his times to rally a disheartened nation to unite and fight as one people."

"While there may be Trumpian elements to Churchill – ill-temper and fiscal imprudence – there is nothing Churchillian about Trump when it comes to leading with courage, loyalty and purpose."

ATRocity said...

Enjoyed that. Forbes agrees on the most salient points - as for courage, loyalty and purpose, it depends on who you ask for both. I’d argue Churchill is very over estimated and when one delves into all he did and didn’t do one comes away shaken not stirred. I just had a long debate over who started targeting civilian sites in England or Germany. It was Churchill. While Hitler would readily bomb such sites in other countries he admired England and Churchill, especially with their shared eugenic beliefs. He held off until Churchill left him no choice. The thing Churchill is admired most for, he facilitated. Can we say the same for Trump? Again depends on who you ask.

Anon2323 said...

Tom YOU ARE GROSS! Comparing to Hitler you sicko, Hitler help kill 13 million and my family I told people on here to stop using and saying Hitler out your mouth. Makes me sick, I lost my family and I am 2nd generation holocaust survivor.

We have had no wars!!! The dems did nothing in house nor senate yet the president loses makes perfect sense. Biden has a bigger turnout than Obama, such a joke. I agree Guiliani can be slime

As Bronx ATR stated the media does not make the final decision, let the states finish counts and lawsuits be settled and courts and when that dust clears it would be official. POll workers should not be cheering when poll watchers or asked to leave. Polls in Detroit should not be boarding up windows. Shoe on other foot republican state and doing same shadyness be losing your damn minds!

James Eterno said...

Anon 2323, It ain't over till it's over. OK but it's over in my opinion. If I was losing by over 4 million votes, I would be too embarrassed to go to court. The people said no to you. Find another way to have influence as we move ahead.

As for Churchill, rallying to lift up his country at the worst time in WW II in 1940 when a weakened Britain was fighting alone against Germany that had most of the resources of Europe at their disposal, was one great act of leadership that will never be forgotten in spite of his many flaws and mistakes in other areas.

I have had the Churchill argument with Bronx ATR over and over. It is an enlightening discussion.

Bronx ATR said...

(this was me - the odd account I use when I can’t sign in)

waitingforsupport said...

@james, @ bronx and @Tom...

Are exactly who are needed in every friÄŸging classroom throughout the DOE. You are a parents dream. I'd fight to have my child in your class. That was an amazing discussion/debate. I wish it happened more often. Thanks!!!

James Eterno said...

Thanks w4s.

waitingforsupport said...

You're welcome!!!
Stay safe

Tom said...

@6:13 - makes you sick? Glad I could oblige. Made my day wacko. But I see you couldn't refute a single comparison that was made. You make YOURSELF sick, supporting someone who demonizes entire groups of people in the same fashion. "waah, waah, waaah". You need to get ahold of yourself and take your meds because you are having a complete meltdown over Trump's utterly embarrassing 4 million vote loss.

Tom said...

Thanks waitingforsupport. The feeling is mutual.

waitingforsupport said...

Thanks @tom.
Stay safe and keep keeping on!

Bronx ATR said...

Cheers W4S!!

Anonymous said...

Today is the anniversary of Kristallnacht and this blog is comparing people to Hitler and minimizing what happened.
Nothing in history can be compared to the holocaust.

James Eterno said...

This blogger said the Nazi analogies went too far. My exact words earlier:

"I usually steer away from Hitler analogies as they are kind of overused and I do not want to trivialize what Hitler did."

waitingforsupport said...

@3:28 pm...
We should never compare wounds. We should acknowledge wounds. Ask some Americans of African dissent. Horror is horror. We don't have to agree with everything but what happened to showing empathy to one another? Anon 2323 groups people together, bashes poor students/minority students and their behavior. Should I make an assumption about the behavior of ALL jewish people simple from the jewish people I work with for 20 years? Of course not. Anon 2323 should say what he/she needs to say about a specific person but should not group people together and sh^t on them. Read and re read "First they came". We've all experienced tragedy and pain.

waitingforsupport said...

*simply

Tom said...

For a blog full of educators, people sure do have a problem with reading comprehension. NOBODY compared anyone or anything to the holocaust, but to the RISE of a fascist like Hitler and the beginning of the breakdown of democracy. If anyone would like to tackle any of the comparisons that have been made and refute them, have at it. It not, stop squawking that the holocaust is being minimized because you have no idea what you're talking about. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe a "leading Holocaust historian". As for me - I'd rather believe the historians, including German historian “There are certain traits you can recognize that Hitler and Trump have in common,” Ullrich says.

"Browning, a professor emeritus at the University of North Carolina, specializes in the origins and operation of Nazi genocide. His 1992 book Ordinary Men, a close examination of how an otherwise unremarkable German police battalion evolved into an instrument of mass slaughter, is widely seen as one of the defining works on how typical Germans became complicit in Nazi atrocities.

So when Browning makes comparisons between the rise of Hitler and our current historical period, this isn’t some keyboard warrior spouting off. It is one of the most knowledgeable people on Nazism alive using his expertise to sound the alarm as to what he sees as an existential threat to American democracy.


Browning’s essay covers many topics, ranging from Trump’s “America First” foreign policy — a phrase most closely associated with a group of prewar American Nazi sympathizers — to the role of Fox News as a kind of privatized state propaganda office. But the most interesting part of his argument is the comparison between Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Paul von Hindenburg, the German leader who ultimately handed power over to Hitler.
Now, as Browning points out, “Trump is not Hitler and Trumpism is not Nazism.” The biggest and most important difference is that Hitler was an open and ideological opponent of the idea of democracy, whereas neither Trump nor the GOP wants to abolish elections.

What Browning worries about, instead, is a slow and quiet breakdown of American democracy — something more much like what you see in modern failed democracies like Turkey. Browning worries that Republicans have grown comfortable enough manipulating the rules of the democratic game to their advantage, with things like voter ID laws and gerrymandering, that they might go even further even after Trump is gone:

"We are living through a period of serious threat to American democracy. And Browning’s essay, a serious piece by a serious scholar, shows that it’s not at all alarmist to say so.

James - steer away from what you wish. I prefer to go with the experts - or at least consider what they have to say. PLENTY of people voted against Trump because they considered him a DANGER, given a second term, because of those very comparisons.

Bronx ATR said...

Say what you will about Trump, he certainly does have a very repulsive personality, but he has done a few great things. There’s no way he should be demonized as a Hitler - he’s stands unapologetically for the unborn and Israel. That means a lot for many of us. What has Biden done in 47 years in office? Less than nothing. There are folks that are still locked up because of his systemically racist drug law punishments - that he finally rejected when he grew a heart and some empathy because of his owns son’s problems. I first noticed him during the Anita Hill hearings - to her credit she forgave him. Make no mistake Biden is not what the media makes him out to be and the media doesn’t have the legal right to inaugurate him.

James Eterno said...

Tom, Chomsky is with you but I don't agree. This is from the Independent. Experts disagree with you and Noam.

"Chomsky also makes a highly controversial comparison between Trump and Adolf Hitler – one that was strongly rebutted by experts on the Holocaust who told The Independent such a suggestion was wrong and offensive."

James Eterno said...

Trump governed as a standard issue Republican. Corporate tax cuts, anti-labor, pro-corporate judges. And we're still in Afghanistan. A few tariffs does not make him a working class supporter. He totally botched up the pandemic. That's why he lost. We know that we are probably going to get a third Obama term with Biden that is hopefully better than the first two on education and unions.

Anon2323 said...

Bronx ATR gets it, only people embarrassed are the dems who dropped seats all over, no blue wave, it was a red wave. Dem party in shambles with AOC and far left, let's put a billion dollars into Georgia for elections, let's put 200 million against Lindsay Graham for power and control.

@James it was projected 1.3 million would die, If Joe Biden was president 2 million plus since borders would have been open. Fauci wrong from start, cut the covid nonsense which was used as a shield for the dems and biden.


Tom, what was so scary, no wars, gas prices nearly under 2 dollars, amazing trade deals, lowest unemployment, and best economy, pensions soaring, stock market on fire. Social justice reform, lowering rates, drug prices. Backing the police, wanting law and order. OMG these are scary policies. Let's have open borders, free college, 100 trillion climate change, that's not scary. Jesus can you imagine if Obama could done 1/4 of this in 2nd term.

waitingforsupport said...

@Anon2323: The people have spoken. Trump lost in spite of all of these "accomplishments". No second term. We tried him out and it's been decided that we prefer a different model. The people have spoken. Be a gracious loser. No second term.

James Eterno said...

Projected deaths by who: Fox News or One America?

Trump knew what we were up against with COVID-19 and blew it.That's mainly why he lost. The Woodward tape of what Trump said about the seriousness of COVID-19 in February when he was telling us it was nothing to worry about says it all. Then, encouraging states to open up way too early created a COVID-19 spike in the summer when it could have been slowed considerably. Oh and of course the masks.

To continue, more jobs were created in Obama's second term than Trump's only term. Providing stimulus when it was not needed with the tax cuts for the rich that caused my taxes to go up (loss of SALT and Misc deductions) just led to more inequality. By perusing policies that enrich Jeff Bezos and the Walton family even more did not help the nation or Trump's working class followers.Creating more low wage jobs hasn't lifted the working classes much and fighting to take away their healthcare does not improve anything nor does endless war which Trump didn't end.

Trump's judicial appointments have one thing in common: they side with corporations, not workers. Working people were not empowered under Trump and his education policy was just to throw as much money as DeVos could get away with to charter schools and private schools. Oil prices were falling in Obama's second term too. Throwing out the accepted rules of how a president should act is just a little more on his record and of course there is the Charlottesville racist statement. Remember, good people on both sides. He said plenty of other things that were embarrassing.

I could go on but I will stop. You know I am no big Obama fan, particularly on education where he was a disaster. I didn't forget Race to the Top or Obama applauding the mass firing of teachers in Rhode Island. Education and labor are the two areas where Biden may just do better than Trump or Obama. Very low bar.

Tom said...

@James 6:08 - you say Choam was rebuffed by experts, but don't say who they were, nor do you even say what his "highly controversial comparison' was.

James Eterno said...

I cited the Independent. That is a well respected UK paper.

Tom said...

@5:32 - it's a nonsensical right wing talking point that the media has "inaugurated Trump". The media has done what they've always done. They report on the votes already counted by state, and whoever gets the most votes of that state, wins the electoral votes. Whoever wins 270 first is declared the winner. Trump's mouthpiece called Arizona for Biden before anyone and Biden received 270 without it. Trump couldn't give a rat's behind about the born, nevermind the unborn. He cares about the Evangelical vote and they consider the abortion issue to be non-negotiable, and they don't care about the unborn either - they care about the diminishing numbers in the white population. As for Trump having a "repulsive personality" - I don't vote for unhinged authoritarians with repulsive personalities who demonizes EVERYBODY.

Tom said...

@7:44 - who said anything about scary? He's despicable and unhinged but sure - it IS scary to have a narcissistic psychotic who is always threatening to arrest someone and have them tried for treason. Clearly you can be bought on the cheap for the price of gas. Best economy? Didn't Trump say NY was dying because of the catastrophe surrounding the virus? Law and Order? The fraud, conman, strongman criminal ascribes to law and order? Are you fucking kidding me? Lowest unemployment that turned into the highest unemployment. But, but, but the virus, still counts, try as you might to pretend that he should only be judged on how things were going because a national crisis.

He lost - get over it.

waitingforsupport said...

@ anon2323
"Fauci wrong from start". So this new virus had the science community stumped. But a physician can't reverse their opinion. It's not allowed. Please Trump is just grasping at straws. We are witnessing how a person behaves when the realization of losing their job is terrifying because their job is their entire identity. It's over. 4 years was too much for 75 million citizens. Move on.

Tom said...


@James - that's neither here nor there. The "Independent" disagreed with Choam - whatever the controversial comment was, that you didn't post. There is NOTHING to suggest that they disagreed with the rest of the experts or the other comparisons since, for the umpteenth time, nothing I posted referenced the holocaust.

James Eterno said...

I read your original post over on the Nazis. When you start mentioning Hitler, it is implied that the whole Nazi package is part of it. I see your point that the you didn't directly refer to the Holocaust.

I still disagree that the USA today is in the same position as the Weimar Republic in Germany and would suggest people, even distinguished professors, refrain from using Hitler, if possible, as it just turns people off.

Bronx ATR said...

Tom, I’m not a right wing person or Evangelical. I vote liberal on almost everything, but abortion. Just because evangelicals believe what I and others do, doesn’t automatically make it wrong. Think about what you are inferring. Those folks have been stereotyped much the same way we see poor non-white minorities. They were blamed for President Trump’s win in 2016. Evangelicals, ‘hillbillies’ and/or folks from Appalachia have been homologically grouped by the media and have not historically been on the forefront of political action. They have been and are marginalized, ignored and vilified; especially in the media’s facilitating grouping. If a group (especially a White group) is stereotyped, it’s much easier for the media (and the millions that are controlled by it) to minimize, ridicule and ignore them. Many, not just Evangelicals, share the anti-abortion stance - the Roman Catholic Church, conservative Anglicans, all Orthodox Christian, Jewish groups and many Muslims. We are White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, poor, rich, middle-class, educated and non- educated. We all believe in G-d and we all concur with President Trump’s stance that abortion is evil and had to vote accordingly in both elections. Whether Trump himself believes what he has publicly stood up for is irrelevant. It’s actions that speak. As for the media, I have never watched what I saw on Saturday night - acceptance speeches and fireworks before an official end to the count. Many voted for Trump, even though his personality is abrasive. As a practicing Christian and long time supporter of Israel, many of us had to. As much as you and many hate Trump, you and many seem to be taking on his perceived traits - the very traits you say you say stopped you from voting for him. Peace.

Anonymous said...

I think you can safely just compare the way Trump speaks to crowds the way Hitler did. Both used rhetoric and brainwashed a lot of people. People are fanatical about Trump the way people were about Hitler. Nobody is saying that Trump is a murderer. People over history have been compared to Hitler all the time. Many people are compared to Jesus but didn't die for our sins.

Anonymous said...

@9:51, Then one can also legitimately compare Trump to any great orator, which Hitler was, that mesmerized crowds - Winston Churchill, Martin Luther King, Barack Obama, Abe Lincoln, JFK, Frederick Douglass or even Cicero.

Bronx ATR said...

Also Tom, FYI, the vast majority of women who get abortions are non-white - 900 out of every thousand. Claiming Evangelicals only care about the unborn because of a dwindling White population is patently wrong and could be seen as overtly racist. I personally would not want to label you or anyone with that monicker. Peace.

Tom said...

@12:16 - you're missing the point. The powers that be certainly can't very well just advocate for white women not to have abortion, so it's all or nothing. Don't believe me, maybe you'll believe the White Supremacist icon William Pierce who talked about it. It was HE who said it was about "white genetic survival". I'm sure many evangelicals, and others really are anti-abortion from the heart. I know plenty myself. I'm referring to the POWER ELITE and why THEY who have proven that they care NOTHING about ANYBODY are so hell-bent on overturning Roe v Wade. It was you who brought up Trump as if anyone in their right mind is going to believe he gives a damn about the children, or about a woman having an abortion. They take the process out of context and have gone so far as to claim that grieving parents who don't want life saving measures for a child who may be born severely deformed, are murderers. That's obscene, and disgusting.

Tom said...

@10:59 - Are you drunk? Now you're bordering on madness if you think you can compare Trump to any of the great orators that you just mentioned. How embarrassing.

Tom said...

@James - it doesn't turn me, and many others, off at all. I think it is WISE to be on the alert for the first signs of a dangerous despot amongst us. Moreover, I wasn't the first one to make the comparison. Someone posted to Anon2323 and he got his panties in a bunch. I'm sure, I'd bet money, he didn't mind ONE BIT when right-wingers and Republican leadership were putting Hitler mustaches on Obama and making their own comparisons. He's having a meltdown over the comparisons? TOO BAD.

Anonymous said...

Trump will win this election. There is evidence of fraud. If Gore hadn’t conceded the election, he would have been president. We would have missed twenty years of wars (because Saddam put out a hit on Papa), the Patriot Act and the No Child Left Behind Act. Trump will not concede. Unfortunately, the country will be torn apart. When media mesmerized liberal hyper-progressives don’t get their own way, watch out.
Here’s something to mull on - https://youtu.be/uErY5RJ76Os

James Eterno said...

I am not a gambler but I bet you are wrong. The only way Trump becomes president again is if he wins in 2024, 6:40. The Grover Cleveland way.

waitingforsupport said...

@6:40 pm...
Yes he will...only if he steals it. Votes have been counted and he lost. Now if he wants a civil war,that's a different story and we all will lose

James Eterno said...

6:40, I went to USA Today which easily debunked the turnout story.
up next
Fact check: Wisconsin has more registered voters than ballots cast
Fact check: Wisconsin turnout in line with past elections, didn't jump 22% as claimed
ERIC LITKE | USA TODAY | 5:43 pm EST November 5, 2020



JUST THE FAQS, USA TODAY
The claim: Wisconsin voter turnout jumped from 67% in 2016 to 89% in 2020

The long wait for presidential election results has created a void in which citizens are seeking information on how we got here — a void being filled often with poorly researched information.

Donald Trump Jr. was among the many on social media the day after the election reacting to voting numbers without first considering or researching whether they’re legitimate.

The president’s son tweeted “I’m calling bull****,” at about 2 p.m. on Nov. 4, sharing another tweet that claimed turnout in Wisconsin jumped from 67.34% in 2016 to 89.25% in 2020. Eric Trump, another of the president’s sons, posted the same thing on Facebook, saying, “Looks like fraud!”

It fed into the false narrative swirling among conservatives that Wisconsin and other key states went to Democratic candidate Joe Biden as a result of voter fraud.


Elizabeth Quirmbach, right, registers Ayuka Sinanoglu, center, outside of University of Wisconsin-Madison's Memorial Union in Madison, Wis., on Oct. 19, 2020.
Elizabeth Quirmbach, right, registers Ayuka Sinanoglu, center, outside of University of Wisconsin-Madison's Memorial Union in Madison, Wis., on Oct. 19, 2020.
STEVE APPS, AP
The turnout claim — retweeted based on Trump Jr.’s share more than 13,000 times — is absurd and based on a misunderstanding of basic election math. Twitter has since suppressed the original tweet, noting it “might be misleading about an election.” It is misleading.

USA TODAY has reached out to Trump Jr. for comment.

More: Fact check: That spike in the Wisconsin vote tally was expected and legitimate, not fraud

The real turnout numbers
Wisconsin had more than 3.6 million registered voters heading into Election Day, and more than 3.2 million Wisconsinites voted in the presidential race.

But those aren’t the numbers used to calculate turnout here.

For starters, Wisconsin allows same-day voter registration, so that number of registered voters goes up throughout the day. In 2016, for example, 12.7% of voters registered on Election Day, according to the Wisconsin Elections Commission.

Even more important, registered voters is the wrong figure entirely for calculating turnout. Voter turnout in a same-day registration state is based on the percentage of eligible voters who cast a ballot.


"So when you divide the number of votes cast in Wisconsin — 3,278,963 as of Nov. 5 — by the voting-age population in Wisconsin (4,536,293 as of 2019, according to the elections commission), you get a turnout rate of 72.3%.

That’s the highest rate ever behind the 2004 election, but solidly in the range of past presidential contests here.

Recent presidential election turnouts in Wisconsin:

2020 — 72.3%

2016 — 67.3%

2012 — 70.4%

2008 — 69.2%

2004 — 72.9%

2000 — 67%

It is also worth noting that while Biden received about 250,000 more votes than Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton did in 2016, Trump exceeded his own 2016 totals by 14.6% percent, or about 200,000 votes.

So, a good chunk of the increased turnout was due to his supporters.

More: Fact check: Wisconsin has more registered voters than ballots cast

Our ruling: False
We rate this claims FALSE because it is not supported by our research. The purported difference in turnouts isn't due to fraud or something nefarious, it’s due to bad math.

James Eterno said...

Another Trump conspiracy theory domino falls:

Postal worker whose allegations of ballot tampering were cited by top Republicans has recanted, officials say

The employee’s false claims have been cited by top Republicans as potential evidence of widespread voting irregularities, including by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) in a letter to the Justice Department calling for a federal investigation. But on Monday, as he was questioned by federal agents, the letter carrier signed a document admitting he fabricated the claims.

Anonymous said...

The question I keep asking myself is, ‘are the Democrats willing, able and capable of committing voter fraud to rid themselves and the country of Donald Trump ?’ Yes, yes and maybe/yes or maybe/no - in that they are capable of trying but incapable of not being caught. Some of the more outrageous conspiracy theories, like the last one above, actually appear to be planned in order to prove a pathetic grasping of straws on the part of Republicans and to desensitize the public via the media to any thoughts of authentic concerns of voter fraud. Stay tuned. I’m afraid of the violence that will happen in this country when Trump is inaugurated, but there will be no thwarting of that occurrence. -6:40