STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- Councilman Joe Borelli (R-South Shore) is calling for New York City to utilize Early Retirement Incentives (ERI) for the city’s senior and highest-paid employees amid the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak.
In a letter to Mayor Bill de Blasio, also signed by City Council Minority Leader Steven Matteo (R-Mid-Island) and six other council members, Borelli said he hoped the city would “get ahead of the impending fiscal crisis supporting the implementation” of an ERI.
“Unfortunately, with weak revenue forecasts on the horizon, an ERI should be the first step taken before New York’s municipal workers are forced to cope with layoffs or furloughs,” the letter read.
As explained by Erik Cober of the Manhattan Institute: “Early retirement programs encourage employees to leave the payroll. Such programs are most effective if targeted to job titles in which retiring employees need not be replaced, at least on a one-for-one basis.
Further down:
Rather than conduct drastic job cuts, Borelli wrote that ERIs could prove effective and are favored by municipal workers.
“In 1991, for example, 4,000 teachers took advantage of the ERI, and 3,500 followed in 1995. More recently, the Citizens Budget Commission estimates that the ERI authorized by Governor Paterson in 2010, which 9,311 employees opted in, saved New York’s state and local governments a combined $681 million over two years, as they exchanged $1.4 billion in payroll costs for $755 million in pension benefit costs.”
On Twitter, Borelli shared the letter, writing: “Sometimes the old playbook still works. The Mayor MUST look at Early Retirement Incentives in an effort to cut costs in our new #COVID19 budget reality. We can’t hope for a solution, we must solve it.”
Council Education Chair and UFT member Mark Treyger signed onto this letter. The mayor would not comment on a possible incentive. Both the unions and Mayor de Blasio would have to agree on an incentive.
President Michael Mulgrew stated at yesterday's Town Hall and Wednesday's Delegate Assembly that if the city and unions agreed, the State Legislature would then have to pass the retirement incentive, since our pensions are governed by state law, and then Governor Andrew Cuomo would have to sign it.
I don't know what a 2020 early retirement incentive would look like. In the past, incentives gave employees one month of extra pension credit for each year worked up through a maximum of 36 months.
The full letter:
81 comments:
So this doesnt really help someone with 18 years in, at 40 years old, right?
Who knows how or if it will be structured?
My colleague submitted retirement papers in Feb. She's getting monthly payments but not her final payment. Her question: can she reverse her decision? I say no way. What do you think James?
I have to look up how to reverse a retirement. There is a process but this question is very rarely asked. If someone is on terminal leave, it can be reversed before it ends because you are still on payroll. Collecting already is a different more complicated process.
Thank you.
@6:18- even if you could qualify for the incentive- think about it- you would be at a 37.5% of your fas- your pension would be what $36,000 max?' for what to get another job for 20+ years and start at the bottom as a 40 year old??
And no cash inducement to retire like ATRs? In fact wouldn’t this be a good year to offer ATRs a nice cash parting gift?
I am 618. No, i have enough money to resign. I would gladly take that.
743
Even at 40, if you get a partial pension that is virtually tax free and move to a cheaper state, you don’t need as much money.
Plus, as a guy who has done part time work at Home Depot and Walmart over the summers, you get treated better at those chains than you do in the doe.
If I could get 40 grand a year at age 40 and benefits, I would sell my house and leave.
Teaching is not a career anymore. It’s a day to day job where you try not to get 3020’d
It says most senior and highly paid employees. I dobt think they are talking about me, 18 years, 40 years old. I would be, by rule, resigning not retiring. If they open it to me, I'm in. Think, they would save my large salary every year going forward, my medical and would lock me into a small pension.
Waiting, I emailed out the information you requested.
Retiree needs to file an "Application for Restoration from Service Retirement" with TRS. Go to TRS website for more details.
Haters who want to advise against taking 40,000 per year, just stop. You obviously don't feel like many of us do and if you are currently, retired, respectfully, please shut your mouth.
This is what I wrote the gov, the may, MM and all my elected official:
NYPD, FDNY get 20 year retirement incentives.
Teachers deserves a 20 year retirement incentive.
I believe it should be offered to all Tier IV/Tier v employees... 20 years of service @ 40% FAS - retire regardless of age.
I think teachers should have to buy into it like the 25/55 option if they did not have 20 years of service yet.
I think teacher should be able pay to have both options open... so if they hit twenty and want to stay they can ... money not refundable .... again the State has to have an upside to accept this.
I am not afraid to start over. I have other skills. I can make money easily but a pension and health benefits are not as easy to negotiate with an employer.
So if you don't want that deal b/c you are a so-called bread-winner or whatever than stick it out... but for those of us who want a new lease on life, know how to hustle and make money, than left us have at it.
if you look at 20 years of service..FAS w/30 above... approx 46000 per year... that is a decent base salary supplement.
59.5 - TDA - money access
62 - SS if it is still around.
Write everyone: 20 years of service regardless of age @ 40 FAS.
How does that help me? I have 18 years in and I am turning 40 years old.
I'm retiring next week; I sent several emails back in May asking the union if there would be a buyout and S.G. and A. B. both assured me there would be no buyout. There's no MONEY they said. I've been on terminal leave since February 2020. I'm calling TRS on Monday. I've waited for years for a buyout. All they do is misinform and lie to teachers; I'm upset... I have to reverse this. I tried to go on Family Leave and they misinformed me about that also; they told me it was paid. I looked at the application for Restauration of Service Retirement on the TRS website. Do I have to fill that out? It's too late to fill out the QP 40. Back in May I was going to end terminal leave and go back to work to get the buyout.
Also, if I am 40 with 18 years, if I take a buyout/incentive, thanks to some great uft negotiating, I immediately forfeit the last retro payment. So whatever I get to leave, I am forfeiting 15k right back to them.
There are no details in Borelli's letter. Why not? What does he want? He wants to get rid of the defined pension plans. He knows that's a nonstarter so he will settle a gradual weakening of pension benefits and unions. And retirees, like James, though he personally opposes Unity, who dominate the Unity machine, and who have their defined pensions and benefits, don't mind if we continue to eat our young members. Here comes Tier 7, a non-defined pension plan.
The real reason our Union is weak is that it eats its young. And Unity is dominated by Retirees and an older cohart with better benefits. I am in favor of seniority, don't get me wrong, but not to fuck the newbies and middle-aged teachers, make them pay their dues etc.
How about this for sticking together, young and old: we negotiate layoffs of our most senior people with the highest salaries who take sabbatical pay while we build solidarity with our newer members by keeping them working at full pay and giving them the same pensions we have.
@11:58- not everything needs to be about you- this would help many thousands-probably of teachers- however being that this does away with the gains that the city made with tier 6 - i think it is unlikely to pass
Pete zucker,
I’m 42 and an ATR. Their precious deals have been garbage.
Make me a long term deal and I’m gone.
40 grand a year for the rest of my life and medical and I’m out.
I’ll sell my house and leave NY and long term, the doe saves 60 k per year the next decade or so on my salary and hires a tier 6 person who will quit in 2 years.
Shelley, For the record, I opposed the weakening of Tier IV and the creation of Tier VI. I am totally against making this job worse for new teachers. Tier VI makes it almost impossible to get to full retirement age. If someone starts as a 22 year old college grad, one has to work 41 years to qualify for a pension which is capped at 55% of final five years of salary. Only an activist membership can reverse Tier VI.
For the guy who always writes that he wants his 8.25% fixed interest on the TDA back, I voted no on the reduction to 7% and exposed that horrible deal on this blog.
Concessionary unionism does not work but as long as all of you don't come together to stop it, nothing will change.
We will have to see what the deal is, if one materializes.
I am starting yr 29, and will be 52. I don't want to retire or resign if it means losing out on the big bump that comes with 30 yrs of service. I will just work until my 30 or more and then adios muchachos.
As I researched the prior ERI deals, I am unsure of how they work. It seems there are 2 pathways - 1. something like 25/55 2. something like, you get a month for each credited year of service up to 3 yrs.
But I also think, from reading prior deals, that if one is under 55, there is a reduction in pension that may be permanent, which I think in the past was 5% a year reduction for each year under 55 That's a big bite out of the pension payment! Ex: if I am 51 and I opt in hypothetically, that could be a 20% reduction for the rest of my life. Not good.
I realize it is all about what is negotiated this time. I shared that for context.
Other things to add: I think they need all the teachers they can have this Fall - and there is a hiring freeze, and even the dumbest admins prob don't want a bunch of rookies starting in Sept - with all the stuff we are going to be dealing with. So I think a nice deal for a teacher near retirement is unlikely.
Also, knowing the DOE, why not harass the vets into resigning with an adverse rating, instead of giving a nice deal? That's how they like to save money on the cheap. I am sure some people were peeved teachers did not get rated this year, on that score. The nice deal prob for non-school staff.
Finally, I am concerned for our TDA fixed, which hasn't been discussed. Since Mulgrew said the DOE and City ask about everything, no doubt they would like to lower that 7%. For a lot of people that is a big part of retirement planning too.
103 AM, If i recall, they told james the same thing. The uft told him no atr buyout, he fought to find a job, then lost access to the 50k buyout a few months later. Typical uft. Keep paying those dues. Right, james? Did you like getting screwed?
"Concessionary unionism does not work"
But that is all we get.
Not worth $1600 yearly.
In reference to the old vs. young member conflict:
I will speak only for myself and not generalize. I have around 30 years in, and have been through the new, middle, old phases. I was horrified when I saw Tier 6, and I believe strongly that the profession will be destroyed if young, skilled teachers don't see the point in staying because it is financially unfeasible. Teaching could become more of a temp job, 3-5 years, etc, not a lifetime career.
It has been said Tiers can be renegotiated and improved legislatively, so I hope that is true.
On the other side, just speaking as an individual, some newer teachers think the solution is to get rid of all the older teachers, or expect us to just resign or die. I couldn't believe that young colleagues would say that out loud! As if people like me don't have children, families, bills, lives. That is a shameful point of view and this ageism is a growing problem. We all know with FSF that older teachers are marked as financial liabilities but many new teachers would strip seniority and tenure rights in a minute if they could benefit.
Another problem is the blatant ass-kissing of admin by younger teachers, and the tattling and spying - it kills the ability to have a functioning union, when you can't trust someone in your foxhole because they want to strike a better deal and sell you out.
If you have 30 years there is no reduction you just have to wait till 55 to get the pension.
1:03, Read carefully,any ERI is in the very early stages. There is no guarantee an incentive will pass.
The idea of terminal leave is to try out retirement. Just rescind it. You should still be on payroll. Did you already fill out the application to retire? Definitely call TRS first thing Monday and contact your school as well as UFT. Keep us posted if you like too.
James, I hope you are right, your words to God's ears lol, and under 55 don't get a pension reduction, because if so, I will prob opt in if it happened that way, and retire this summer.
BTW, James, wonderful work as always with this blog, even with the loonies who post, you provide an invaluable service and you are truly one my heroes.
I was pissed at the time but it turned out just fine as the extra year I worked was one of the best I ever had. I ended up being a reluctant retiree.
I discussed what happened with Amy Arundell in 2017. After we both had some choice words back and forth, she ended up being quite helpful.
It proves the point how fake and useless the uft is. Just because it happened to work out for you, doesnt mean they havent hurt many of us.
I understand your point 11:40. That is one of the reasons I keep writing. I still hope and pray people will come together to take back their union.
Obviously your words with amy didnt change how uft does business. It is awfully difficult to defend them when ive been ignored for 20 years.
De Blasio just announced that Juneteenth will be a school holiday starting next year. Too bad Juneteenth falls on a weekend for the next two years. Also, all this will do is extend the school year by one day. Also high school students don't even go in that day as Regents are usually done by then.
Unfortunately neither the 1991 nor 1995 buyouts would apply to a 40 year old.
Amy helped me and chapter members who were referred to her. We don't always agree for certain but she does her job.
Now, can we get back to pensions?
If she doesn't get the job done, she hasn't done her job. Anyway, this is all meaningless talk until something is put on the table, officially. My concern, as stated by several, is that it will only be useful for those of certain age levels or certain amounts of years, which excludes people who would love to resign.
We have very low expectations of both our uft leaders and the students.
If there is a deal, you consider it, and if good and if eligible you take it. At 39 years old, I would take it but probably won't be eligible.
The 20/40% deal idea is that anyone in tier iv & Tier v could pay into it like 25/55 '
so ex, if 39 w/18 years... you pay until you hit 20 then you retire at 20.
what realistic deal would you what? ideas?
Cops and Firefighter retire in their mid 40s all the time... why is this so inconceivable and btw..their salaries are not as good as teachers
THIS IS THE FIGHT PEOPLE WHY CAN'T WE GET WHAT OTHER CITY AGENCIES GET...
IF YOU BELIEVE TAKE AN ACTION AND ASK FOR IT.... WRITE An email.... CC YOUR LOCAL OFFICIAL
MM, DEBOZO, RANDY, Borelli,
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Published on NYPD Recruit -
After 20 years of service, a retired Police Officer will receive:
Estimated earnings of $46,000 per year, comprised of 50 % of salary, longevity, night shift differential, overtime and an annual $12,000 payment from a Variable Supplement Fund.
- A retired Police Officer could receive approximately $1.75 million when retired assuming a life expectancy of 80 years. This figure is based on the age of appointment of 22 and the age of retirement of 42.
- The dollar amount of $1.75 million is estimated on 2003 salaries and is not adjusted for inflation or for future raises.
- This dollar amount will be higher for uniformed members that retire above the rank of Police Officer.
Full health benefits
Annuity Fund and Deferred Compensation Plan.
- The amount of the funds depends on the market value of the portfolio that the officer has chosen while active.
http://www.nypd2.org/recruit/html/benefits.html
The best art of that might be the guaranteed 12k yearly supplement...And of course the young age...
I am the 39 years old with 18 years. If that was the deal, retire at 42, i would have 20 years in 2022, get the full 40% and not have to pay the penalty...I would pay in for the next 2 years.
This is 1:03 again, thanks for your response. I have to think about rescinding my retirement over the weekend. I'm done with teaching for the DOE and dealing with the UFT. I already have 35 years of service and a couple months... and yes I finished completing the retirement application with TRS. Years ago, I took the 55/25 incentive but I never used it.
I really don't want to go back to the job since I've lost my retention rights for the Chapter 683 Summer School Program and I hate the abusive admin. It appears no one knows with any certainty the details of the ERI and if or when it will pass. I realize now that I want to enjoy my life from here on in.
Funny you mention 20 (now 22) and out regardless of age. My understanding is UFT was offered 20 and out back when it was a really powerful union and turned it down in favor of getting a TDA. Uniform unions eventually got deferred compensation too as well as 20 and out.
FDNY and NYPD also have a Varible Supplement Fund which now pays their retirees I believe $12,000 per year. When I was on UFT Exec Bd, Randi Weingarten said we would push for VSF if any other union got one. Corrections got one. We got the Cost of Living Adjustment that pays 1/2 of increase Consumer Price Index for the first $18,000 of pension up to a max of 3%. We called Randi's diet COLA.
Another question, knowing that nobody's knows. Are we talking about a law change or a 1 time incentive? Big difference.
My educated guess is a one time incentive.
Then this wouldnt work..."The 20/40% deal idea is that anyone in tier iv & Tier v could pay into it like 25/55 '
so ex, if 39 w/18 years... you pay until you hit 20 then you retire at 20."
Don't forget it was much easier to work for a period of 30 years many years ago. Back then you weren't bombarded with misbehaving students, if you were, there were consequences. You didn't have administration breathing down your neck guilting you into passing students so the school can look good. You didn't want to hang yourself at the end of the school day and at the end of the year you were happy and looked forward to the summer and even looked forward to the new year when summer ended. Now at the end of they year you are bombarded with students giving you late work that was most likely plagiarized and administration forcing you to pass the kids because they "did something," and we dread the end of the summer because the whole process starts over again.
Why do you think 30 years ago we weren't bombarded with misbehaving students and we are now?
Exactly, things were different. Kids didn't have cell phones and there were consequences for misbehavior and parents cared about their kids' education at least more then than now and schools ran like actual schools not these small pseudo schools that pretend to be schools.
James, my apologies for writing a crappy sentence that implied that your position is that of the retirees who dominate our union and who don't give a damn about the younger teachers stuck in Tier 6. The letter posted comes from a politician who does care, in fact, he, like many of his kind, cares too much about pensions and how to reduce the costs of pensions. But it's only retirees who should support young members but older members, senior members. So what do you think of my proposal: to cut costs and keep our members on payrolls, the most senior teachers will take a sabbatical, with sabbatical pay, while the younger workers stay on the job. Good for solidarity. Dues. And, while we re all pulling together we could work to close Tier 5 & 6 and fold those members back into Tier 4. Now everyone has the same deal. Of course we older folk with more years would keep all of our seniority. What say you to my plan?
I would favor a return to the 1991 policy where senior teachers could take a sabbatical and retire right away after the sabbatical was done, instead of having to work another 1-2 years. It would save the city money. I could see some taking the year and then going on terminal leave or just going.
No I would not favor an involuntary sabbatical for senior people. Contrary to being a show of solidarity, I believe it would be very divisive. Many senior people as well as new people have bills to pay. Many could not afford the pay cut.
I totally agree with getting rid of Tier VI. I think the easiest way would be a buy in to Tier IV if the city is too poor or we could wait for better days and demand it statewide for all public workers and then NYSUT organizes around it. Working 41 years as a career teacher is not sustainable for most.
One problem with taking a sabbatical before you retire is how your pension will be calculated. Your pension is calculated as your average earnings for the past 3 years you worked, so if you take a sabbatical one year is going to be reduced significantly whether you took the half year or full year sabbatical. You need to take a sabbatical at least 4 years before your planned retirement to maximize your pension. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
"The final average salary (FAS) is the average of your highest three consecutive school years of salary earned whenever they occurred in your salary history, which is typically the average of your last three years."
You keep saying demand, then say we could've had 20 and out and dont get benefits of NYPD. Is this a joke? What have we ever demanded and gotten?
Tier IV originally was 40 years and 62 years old to collect full pension. UFT, NYSUT and other unions called for improvements and we won them. UFT does succeed sometimes.
Other questions about taking a sabbatical should be asked. Would you get the final lump sum payment in October? Would the courses have to aligned to your content area or can you take other college level classes? You can still take rigor courses that is not your teaching area. Do you still accumulate service credit or CAR days during this time?
Still get service credit, still get lump sum payment as you remain on payroll. No added CAR days. Put in for classes you want that have to be relevant. Check with UFT on that but they weren't too big on a certain program that turned out to be okay with DOE.
Why discuss? Not happening.
Ok. So I am 44 years old, with 30 and above. and am finishing my 16th year. What does this scenario mean for me in terms of numbers?
How are you so sure it's not happening. The city is desperate for money. I think ...all options on the table. I just don't think it will benefits a lot teachers that are not at 20 years or more in the system.
Am I correct on this?
I dont think any sort of buyout is happening this summer- between school ending , remote learning etc- not enough time to get the word out to members. factor in less people to do consultations and paper work- we will all be going back in september. summer 2021- however is another story- giving people time to spread the word get the info and make a decison will produce the greater numbers they need for it to be cost effective.
A good point on an incentive. Any incentive needs time to disseminate. In order to get it done properly and effectively there needs to be ample communication. As mentioned earlier there are not a lot teachers with 20 or more years and over 50. You would need an incentive as inclusive as possible to be work well.
@6:18 we are in the exact same boat, you should try and stick it out to 20 years for the extra pension bonus. Even if you have the money you came way too far to stop now.
We need more republicans like Joseph, clearly cannot do anywhere near how the dems have done last 10-15 years.
There is plenty of wrong information here on Pensions. Please call a UFT pension consultant/TRS for more accurate information. We are a long way from any buy - out. If there is one, it will be announced by the UFT. Please stop listening to rumors.
This is what I said on the incentive:
"I don't know what a 2020 early retirement incentive would look like."
We copied the actual letter from the Councilmembers.
Where is the wrong information?
Please correct us Unity.
It's not in your comments James, but others. It's no big deal, but here are a couple of small examples: One comment mentions Tier 5, but that doesn't exist for NYC. Another member states that we are still getting 8.25% in our TDA. I just wan't our members to get accurate information. Opinion's can vary, but it need to be based on facts, not conjecture.
Thank you
A unity hack!!!!!!!!
55/27 may as well have been Tier V although technically it was not. You had to pay into system for 27 years whereas we early Tier IV people only had to pay in for 10 year. The other guy complains that we no longer get 8.25% on the TDA. He makes the argument that 7% was a big givebacks and correctly points out that CSA and PSC still get 8.25% on fixed TDA. I welcome debate but let's all agree on what the facts are and then discuss them.
When we're talking about the FAS, would that include the retro money we've gotten over the last 3-5 years? For some, the retro money bumps salary up quite a bit.
Hey unity hack.... we in the trenches refer to tier 4's red headed bastard stepchild as tier 5. We know you don't want certain tier 4 members to know the UFT fucked them on their pension but we tell them anyway. Tier 4, then something subpar that's NOT called tier 5, then tier 6. Do you see how stupid that is. What number is between 4and 6. Not a 5 according to the UFT. ( my apologies to bastards, step kids and gingers. )
6/21 10am: Don't forget the 10% rule .... fas last 3 years but they also look at 2 years prior (years 4,5 prior to retirement) the average of those 2 years can lower the amount of your final average salary calculation. Info is out their....you can teach yourself all about retirement. ( God bless you and RIP, Chaz). I learned so much about my pension from him. Also TRS puts out a retiree companion every year or 2. And yes..... go for uft consultation.
Technically it is in FAS but it is calculated as if you made the money back in the years where you should have originally earned it had we got the 4%+4% back from 2009-11.
The only worthwhile comment in today's blog is to make sure you make no retirement decision without the expert advice of the UFT.
UFT pension related services are regarded
extremely highly by teachers across the country in the AFT and NEA.
Some decisions and acts you take are final and can not be changed. So know what you are doing.
By the way the teacher who asked about returning after being retired-- not only must you hand in an appropriate form, but you must also hand in a statement from a principal stating he/she will hire you. What chance would some of the whiners and complainers on this blog have of that
FOR YOUR PROTECTION DO NOT TAKE A FINAL RETIREMENT STEP WIITHOUT EXPERT UFT ADVICE
Those who opt out in June will not be entitled to that advice in the future.
Go get a UFT pension consultation for sure. Take a TRS course too if is offered. Who said not to get a UFTpension consultation? Not this blog.
We're Complainers and whiners. That's unity leadership's characterization of those of us who point out their failures. If you want us to stop whining and complaining, Stop failing. Seems like you're the cry baby whiners to me.
Oh jeez 8:07...here we go with the insults.
Okay then! Just get a life 8:07...
Get us decent working conditions Unity. And then enforce them.
Nah
30 55
info@andreastewartcousins.com
scousins@nysenate.gov
info@heastiefornewyork.com - Speaker Heastie
Speaker@nyassembly.gov
borelli@council.nyc.gov
District30@council.nyc.gov - NYC COuncil Holden
https://www.facebook.com/JoeBorelliNYC/
https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form
Scott Stringer action@comptroller.nyc.gov
LeRoy Barr, Assistant Secretary, lbarr@uft.org
https://www.aft.org/contact
rweingar@aft.org
This bill is pretty inclusive. I hope it gets passed by the Senate! From Part A: "If not otherwise
eligible for a service retirement, the following person shall be deemed
to satisfy the eligibility condition of this section: a person who is at
least age fifty with ten or more years service as of the effective date
of retirement" https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s8599
Anyone heard anything about this incentive/buyout lately? Seems that the third week in July, the UFT said they would "have more information" by the following week, but then nothing. So many people are interested in retiring if the city opts into this, but when will they make a definitive decision?
Is there any talk of the early retirement incentive as of July 27th, it has been quiet?
I just hope that if an incentive bill does get passed, Teaching Assistants are also included. Having this offered to Administrators ,Teachers and high paying public officials is good and deserving for them. Teaching assistants have earned the option also, even if it wouldn't save the school districts alot of money due to lower income, we would love to have the option.
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