The state's public-sector unions and state legislators are talking about a retirement-incentive measure aimed at trimming the workforce without layoffs.
The discussions are taking place as the state and its localities grapple with an unprecedented drop-off in revenues as a consequence of the COVID-19-related economic shutdown.
Past early-retirement incentives targeted workers who were 55 or older and close to qualifying for full pensions.
Further down:
Feds Not Rushing In
Legislators and union leaders hope they can fashion a program that will reduce the need for layoffs by encouraging the most-senior and higher-paid employees to retirement early.
"As New York State and City approaches this unprecedented fiscal crisis, it's important to look towards early-retirement incentives to avoid layoffs and realize some savings to plug our budget gap," State Sen. Andrew Gounardes, chair of the Civil Service Committee, said in a statement.
Gearing Up for Tsunami
"We suffered a health earthquake from COVID—and there will be an inevitable financial tsunami that follows," said Assembly Member Thomas J. Abinanti during a June 17 phone interview. "Local governments and school districts in particular are not equipped to deal with that avalanche of financial problems."
He has introduced two early retirement bills, one for Teachers and the second for all other public employees. They are modeled on bills enacted a decade ago when the state had to manage the fallout from the stock-market meltdown that precipitated the Great Recession.
"These bills will need to be re-fashioned for our current circumstances, and we can't do that until we have a conversation with all the stake holders-the local governments and the employee representatives," he said.
The Westchester Assemblyman said that while the fiscal crisis was daunting, it would offer governments at every level an opportunity to foster "a post-COVID economy that would be greener and high tech.This is an opportunity for governments to modernize and re-fashion the way they do things and work with other governments nearby and for larger governments, like counties, to provide services to local governments."
Mr. Abinanti said, "I spoke with one of my Superintendents of Schools who was concerned there were some senior Teachers who are older who were not as up on the technology as you would hope in order to do the at-home learning, and at the same time were reluctant to go back into a classroom where COVID-19 was still a problem," he said.
UFT Waiting on Details
"We are supportive of the idea," said a United Federation of Teachers spokesperson. "If it were to happen, there would be many details that would have to be nailed down."
On May 28, the Municipal Labor Committee wrote Mayor de Blasio to urge that he consider offering early retirement incentives instead of layoffs to reduce the city's headcount and close a $9-billion budget gap.
There's more but no link in the Chief piece to the actual bill. Based on the interview with the Assembly Member, it seems, just as with past Early Retirement Incentives, it will be aimed at people at the top of the seniority scale.
If we get the chance, we will post a summary of the bill's actual details. However, we really still don't know how serious this talk of an ERI is.
73 comments:
Waste. No details. Only 55 years old. No thanks.
An ERI could wind up to be a dud or not get done.
20 and out is a pipe dream.
Conjecture is meaningless, just wait for the offer to be made.
You really think it will be better than what we got in the past? Dream on.
It only applies to very few if 55+.
Teachers who think they are now going to be treated like the police are delusional. This clears up a lot.
Ok, so instead of paying me something to quit now, pay a 40 year old over 100k a year, indefinitely, plus medical, plus a higher pension, plus a bigger sick bank...How much is that over 15 years of work plus pension? Millions? Makes sense to get rid of me.
Retire and miss this? Brace yourselves, city parents.
A Brooklyn principal warned just how chaotic next school year is likely to be in a jarring Father’s Day email to families.
Eve Litwack of PS 107 in Park Slope said social distancing requirements could force an alternating schedule that would split the small school into three groups of students.
That structure — likely to be mirrored across the city — would have kids in their building for one week followed by two weeks of remote learning.
“At maximum capacity, our building can accommodate one third of our students and staff with social distancing protocols in place,” Litwack wrote.
Shellshocked parents said they expected significant disruptions to the schedule due to the coronavirus but were stunned by the scenario Litwack laid out.
“At a certain point this isn’t school anymore,” said one exasperated mom. “Parents don’t know what to do.”
Heavy reliance on remote learning will be especially punishing for those who cannot work remotely and must suddenly scramble to furnish and finance daycare for their kids.
In addition, every inch of the small school could be pressed into service as a classroom — including the cafeteria and smaller offices.
Kids would also have to remain distanced from their classmates at all times, making specialty instruction all but impossible.
“There would be no in-person Art, Music, Science, Technology, Library, or PE in the traditional sense that we’ve come to expect,” Litwack told parents.
If they remain intact at all, those pursuits would be limited to remote lessons or in homeroom classrooms, she said.
Citing CDC guidance, Litwack said kids would likely have to wear masks all day except for when eating — in their classrooms.
The organization counsels “that students remain in their classrooms with their teacher throughout the day, lunch included, and that movement in the building is restricted,” she said.
Litwack acknowledged that the prognosis is bleak and said the future remains deeply uncertain.
“This is the grim reality we face when school reopens,” she said. “However, if the virus subsides during the summer, these guidelines could be eased somewhat.”
Several parents said that the email intensified existing efforts to seek out schooling options for next year, including moving out of the city, turning to private or charter schools, or homeschooling.
Social media groups have already been formed where city residents are considering pooling resources to hire tutors to conduct external group classes in rented spaces or private homes.
“If people can leave, they are,” said a parent. “It’s that simple. But for many people, including me, that isn’t an option. We understand that this is difficult, this is unprecedented. But the lack of answers right now and the proposals they’re giving us are pretty traumatic.”
Despite the ugly projections for the start of the year, Litwack stressed that circumstances could change.
“Please understand that NOTHING is certain at this juncture,” she said. “While we are busy planning for all possibilities, the State and/or City will have the final say in the reopening of schools.”
This is exactly what Mulgrew talked about last week. Nothing new on social distance schooling or the retirement incentive that will be a dud as someone said earlier unless you are already 55.
I have 2 PDs the next 2 days
Tuesday-Prepping for Remote learning
Wednesday-Prepping to welcome students
huh?
Ever hear of the Everly Brothers?
Dreaaaaam, dream, dream, dream...
They are going to pay a pension and health benefits for 40+ years and eventually have to replace you.
They are trying to get rid of the 30-40 year people who won't leave, especially in smaller districts.
There is only one certainty: It's going to be a disaster of epic proportions!
But why not get rid of everyone with 15 plus years, replace them with tier 6 who will quit shortly, get no pension, get no medical?
I think all of us can agree on that disaster of epic proportions part.
It is easy 11:07. Actuaries aren't thinking about how shitty the job is. They see how many quit in the past. They are thinking they will in a few years have to replace someone with 20 years. They then have to pay your pension plus benefits and the new person's salary plus benefits. It isn't a big savings. They want to get rid of the people at the top who won't leave and not replace them for a few years. You know, the teacher who is 70 and falling asleep at the desk. The administrator who manages nothing. The secretary who sits at the desk all day. The credit they get will be saved in not having to pay their top salary and then not replacing them for a few years.
Why you keep talking about an incentive for someone who is 40 is beyond me. It ain't happening. The bean counters would rather you get tortured by the kids or administrators so you leave and collect peanuts when you are 62.
I'm 40. Tier 4. Make twice the first year teacher. Or could replace me with atr and hire nobody. Wanna pay me 125k plus medical another 15 years and then pay 100k pension forever?
Agree with 1132pm. Usually people quite in years 1-5. Not 15-20. I would think getting those 15-20 years out saves huge money, especially when you include the value of tier 4 vs 6.
Im 48 just completed the 25 of my 25/55- im good either way. i want one more year of working just to experience the s##tshow that next year will be.why wouldn't they buy me out?
my pension can only grow 2%+ from here.
An incentive may not come to fruition this year. However if a bill passes the state legislature and signed by the Governor that is only a start. An incentive could target 6,000 to 7,000 teachers in anticipation that half of those accepts a buyout.
Back In 95 they had a buyout it was for all those 50 and older. 1 month for every year you taught. This will be the same. Bank on it.
Steve you said it the city is not going to pay all of those benefits for you and whomever replaces you in a couple of years if you are 40. Our benefits cost the city over $20,000 a year. Add that into the $40,000 a year for pension for someone 42 with 20 years and there is not a whole lot of savings. Better to keep you on for a while longer and not risk the solvency of the pension fund.
Conversely, pushing out someone who is 60 but didn't get much per session this year so may want to hang in another three years to pad those highest three consecutive years for the Final Average Salary calculation is a good deal for the city and it is an especially good deal in districts outside of the city where people are staying forever and they are already Medicare eligible. This will save towns and cities money if they don't replace them for a few years.
The ones who think this will get down to 18-20 year teachers are delusional. They're the type who play mega millions expecting to win. Maybe you will but don't sell the house just yet.
To the guy or guys that keep sending me crime reports as comments,
I thank you for keeping me up to date on crime in NYC, Chicago and even Seattle but it has absolutely nothing to do with the pension. Please stay on topic or at least close. You really should start your own blog. I am flattered that you think the ICEUFT blog is important and popular enough to try to hijack every post.
But it surely relates to schools.
My guess is that an early retirement incentive will also mirror 1995.
They want to retain the newer teachers who are Tier 6. They may try to buyout many Tier 4 personnel.
If your theory is correct, maybe so, but historically it does not hold up. TierI is at least twice as good as even the improved Tier IV. To be in Tier I, you had to be hired before Sept 1973. If we accept your logic, then the city would have structured the 1991 incentive in a way to push out every teacher who had more than 18 years experience, regardless of age to clear out Tier I. They didn't do it that way back then. I don't believe they will do it that way now but what do I know?
I am finishing my 18th year. I am turning 40 years old. I would accept very little to quit.
People are really delusional if they think they're gonna get a buyout mid career during this crisis. They still need bodies in the buildings, and this may be one of the rare cases where across the board, principals want experienced teachers to get through this sure to be chaotic upcoming school year.
Tier 4 vs 6. 120k vs 60k vs an atr already in system. Pension vs non. Medical vs none.
Retirees get medical benefits. They are not setting that precedent to take them away. I can confidently predict that one.
No, I mean a 40 year old who is resigning.
I think you are talking about a severance package. Propose it.
Propose it how?
Tell UFT. Email Mulgrew, Leroy Barr, the pension people. Email de Blasi or Carranza.
What is the mayor's email? What pension people? I already emailed Mulgrew and barr.
Tbrown@uft.org
Re money, rights, etc., has anyone been told they should invite students to a virtual presentation by actor Nate Parker tomorrow? Seems he has a "problematic" past. And his speaking fees seem to be $50-100k plus expenses. Friends and I have written many people in doe/uft to no avail.
And why do you think there will be much per session in the future?
Vaccine and reopened schools=lots of per session 4:45.
per session depends on school schedule i would say
if its going remote then no
if theres split a b c schedules
doubt it
maybe ais or or intervention services
sports who knows??
i would bet against it
Vaccine and reopened schools is what I said. Fauci said early next year he is hoping for.
Dont you think its unfair that ATRs get offered 50k to quit but others cant? That has nothing to do with age or years...
Class-1st mp attendance
Art 33%
Drawing 20%
Eng 2 42%
Eng 3 20%
Eng 5 43%
SS 15%
US 9%
Eco-50%
1st mp-failed most classes, somehow got 82 in Eco and 70 in Eng 2
2nd mp-NX in everything except eng 2
magically, passed every class in the 3rd, except mine.
Instead of asking how she failed mine, which she deserved in every way, i would love someone to explain how she had a term average of 65 or better in every other class after no showing the 1st and failing the 2nd.
Do teachers not understand the 3rd mp is a cumulative term grade? It isn't just may and june.
Nothing will help the innocent.
Well 651, dues well spent.
I emailed uft brown. I'm sure it will go nowhere.
6:51: I'd gladly switch with you in a heartbeat and you can be an ATR and be looked down on in every school you go to and not have classes while everyone else does and not fit in anywhere. Have fun.
Agreed, I am in the younger crowd, but nearing 20 years of service, not of retirement age. I'm not asking for pension to start being paid today, will wait till 55, but think some buyout offer is needed and fair. How much would they save in year 1 by not paying my medical and retro alone?
Excuse me. I was an atr, twice, due to 2 closing schools. Has nothing to do with a buyout offer to a small portion only. Not retirement related. Not equitable.
What we know is that the state and the city have been reducing pensions and benefits for generations. That is going to continue until the defined pension is eliminated.
Tier 6 is still a defined pension plan. It does not pass the adequate pension test. Tier 4 does for some. How can we ensure adequate pensions for our members? How can we reverse the Tier 6 disaster and begin to negotiate better future pensions?
On buyouts. It's almost painful to read the pipe-dream buyout speculations. Like others here I've been listening to such from teachers for decades.
There is no buyout that will change the fact that the pension formula is designed to reward very long-term workers. It does this at the expense of short and medium-term workers. You can't change this by contributing more because your pension is not based on your contributions.
A pragmatic approach:
Your pension is just time and age. So put in the time and age well by taking sabbatical, avoiding conflicts, focusing on your life, family, friends, the summer, the three ten day vacations, the weekends and the time you have because you don't work late in an office until 7pm like many of your non-teacher friends and neighbors. Don't worry about bosses and observations. They are not worth worrying about.
Now to contributions:
Save as much as you can in the TDA and the DCP.
Increase your 35 years SS earning average.
The Streets are full of power and fierce determination to change things.
Even if you don't agree with everything that is going down, imagine a better world. It will do you some good.
Just want a buyout. Simple. Make me an offer.
A lot of us are 38-45 in the same boat. Currently 39 with 18 years in, 20 years is a major goal, then you see 128,000 base salary at year 22 and that is hard to give up when you have a mortgage and kids.
Hate china and this virus, yet for many overworked teachers with class sizes out of control this will help keep them around with smaller class sizes. PE will be a remote type class unless they put 10-15 in a gym lol. What a shit show september will be.
I'm PE too. Almost same situation. I would accept a buyout. 18 years in.
@11:04 haha ded if you have 2 masters than totally on same situation. Did you buy into 25/55? I did no chance i do 34 years as long as I get my money back from my contributions in future I will eat it.
Oue TDA pension doubles I believe every 10 years and 7 months, so at 40 if you have 150,000 in by time 62 even without adding anything else in looking at 1.2 million.
Chaz was the master and I will be using his former posts as guides in the future.
Im turning 40 and have $380k in tda.
I would be shocked if you were married with kids, gotta be single putting in 18% a year. Good for you. UFT and city are good once tier 6 teachers take over in 10 years. BE rich bitch!
Cannot wait until dickface diblasio and cuomo are finally gone, nobody I mean nobody can be as horrible and incompetent as Diblassssssssssssss
I am single. I max out the 457b, tda and roth ira. Have much less in roth and 457, started with those later.
Really the only people who can put that much in a TDA are people with rich spouses.
I am single, as i said. No spouse.
The 1991 buyout required teachers to be 55 OR have 30 years of service. Does this mean if you were 52 and had 30 years of service you could use the three years the incentive gave you towards the age requirement? What if you were 53? Could you use 2 of the incentive years for the age and the other to boast your service total?
If I recall correctly, 1991 yes but I am doubtful about 1995 and 1996.
Is it possible an early retirement deal does not get done? If there is one would the no requirement on sabbaticals also be extended? Sounds like time is of the essence.
what about extending the incentive for people who BOUGHT into 55/25, if they completed one of those requirements- more like 55 OR 25
All Sabbaticals should be discontinued indefinitely.
@6:22 I foolishly signed up for 55/25 way back when thinking it was ORRRRRRR, NAIVE ME.
Still should get the money I put into 55/25 because never make 34 years.
SNOW DAYS WILL BE GONE FOREVERRRRR, THOSE WILL BE REMOTE LEARNING DAYS, NOT LIKE WE HAD MORE THAN 1-2 A YEAR BUT OH WELL.
Shelley,
My sister is with the state. She told me when she started, there was a Tier similiar to Tier 6- crappy. But Pataki improved it, probably to get more votes. Voting for someone who promises to improve the pension, no matter what their party might be the way to go.
Pataki and Cuomo the First improved Tier IV. Tier IV started out much like Tier VI but was improved over the years.
Here's a link to the Bill:
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/a10477
Thanks.
The CSEA is idiotically opposing the proposed bills that would benefit its older members who have worked 25 years, potential new members, and NYS taxpayers. The CSEA has also prohibited their own members from voicing their opinions on the CSEA website, and it's easy to see why they felt it was necessary to do that.
NYS can't afford not to save the hundreds of millions that the proposed ERI would save. Stop the pointless haggling for additions that will never happen in the real world, and pass the ERI now, which benefits everyone to some extent. OR don't pass the ERI and pay higher taxes to kill or impoverish older people with decades of public service, and force younger people looking for work to move out of state.
The latest bill is already better than what we've had in the past. CSEA members are for it. Now if CSEA management would only stop stupidly obstructing it!
You're absolutely right. This is win-win-win, for older workers, younger workers, and taxpayers. If state legislators can't pass this, they're too hopelessly dysfunctional to remain in office.
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