Florida has a population of close to 22 million people while Australia has around 25 million so they have similar population sizes. Australia is much bigger in size but most of its population is concentrated in several urban areas along the coast. Australia has taken a zero-covid approach in combating the Covid-19 pandemic. It was successful for a long time but now much of the country is under some kind of lockdown due to the spread of the highly contagious Delta variant. It has broken through into the community.
Vaccinations have not gone well in Australia mostly due to fears of the AstraZeneca vaccine because of a blood clot scare. This Guardian program describes the situation in great detail. Only 18% of Australia's population is fully vaccinated. It is going poorly.
So what are the COVID-19 numbers in Australia as they go through a very challenging period? I googled it.
Less than a thousand deaths from COVID in Australia since this pandemic began even with the vaccine hesitancy, terrible vaccine rollout and Delta spreading. Schools are also closed throughout much of Australia as this in-depth feature from ABC.net news Australia shows. One part that struck me:
At the start of another week of home learning for thousands of Australian students, and with those in south-east Queensland head back to campus in masks, a return to school-as-normal seems further away than ever.
"It's just the awful truth," says Catherine Bennett, Chair in Epidemiology at Deakin University's School of Health and Social Development in Melbourne.
Yet calculating the risk is an equation that would confront even the most able extension maths student.
Further down:
From an epidemiological point of view, Bennett says, schools are "just perfect" as a vehicle for transmission.
"If you were trying to design a way to improve transmission in the community, you would first say 'let's bring schools into the mix'," she says.
Now let's look at Florida. While Governor Ron De Santis is backing down from his threat to withhold pay from school officials who defy his no mandatory masks in schools order, Florida is still the poster child in many ways for a least restrictive COVID environment where just about anything goes in many parts of the state. How has that worked out?
Okay, it isn't a perfect comparison between Florida and Australia but they are somewhat similar. Any way you look at it, COVID is over 40 times more deadly as of today in Florida compared to Australia. If you care about saving lives in this COVID pandemic, you gotta get tough, including closing borders by the way, before the virus gets out of control, not after.
92 comments:
just wanted to know- are schools going to be giving out PPE- masks gloves etc this year? are they going to be testing in-school weekly- if people are supposidly vacinated?
Intetesting that when i mentioned australia, it was considered a non reliable source.now You bring up Australia...not only that, you completely omitted the fact that it seems like a police statethat they wont lift until people vax.and all the uprisings...and the horrors in france.guess its all fake news
Anything on the California tough approach? Be fair.
Please stop cheerleading Australia’s descent into COVID hysteria totalitarianism. Is this what you want for the US? All in the name of a disease just barely more deadly than the seasonal flu?
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/08/australia-deploys-helicopters-hundreds-of-troops-to-keep-people-at-home-in-strict-new-lockdowns-in-sydney/
The lockdown rules include a mask mandate, even for some outdoor places. People may leave their homes to get groceries and medicine or to go to hospitals. Only one person per household is permitted to leave their home per day to get groceries. People are allowed to go to school or work only if they cannot work and study from home. People may go outdoors to exercise but are not allowed to travel more than 10k from their homes (about 6 miles).
Back in the real world, a studnet emailed me today and asked if they could complete the summer schools assignments. Summer school ended Friday. Keep those standards oh so high, Meisha and Bill.
absolute terrible comparison here so many factors at play here - since there vax #'s are so low maybe if certain strategies are used people don't need to get vaccinated??? most people wont agree with that the government and the media says get your shots - same gov that said for weeks/months that they tested the air around the world trade center after 9/11 and is was totally fine. We know how that turned out.
Death numbers ain't lying. This shit ain't the funding Flu.
You’d think the CDC might loudly advise people in southern states to stay at home, minimize time indoors with people from other households, do not travel, no indoor dining… but I haven’t seen it.
It’s obviously different from the flu. However, the survival rate for most age groups is comparable to the seasonal flu.
Should we lockdown every year with military patrols for the seasonal flu?
James, please stop fueling COVID hysteria. It’s getting tiresome.
To the pro-mandate crowd, you got your symptom retardant (aka “vaccine”), what are you still scared of? Genuine question by the way.
https://www.nbc26.com/news/coronavirus/cdc-estimates-covid-19-fatality-rate-including-asymptomatic-cases
“ Here are those estimates, stated as the percentage of all those infected (symptomatic and asymptomatic) who are surviving:
0-19 Years 99.997%
20-49 Years 99.98%
50-69 Years 99.5%
70+ 94.6%
*80+ not included
Data Source: CDC
I brpught up australia to show that this is what they are planning and ww better wake up fast! Now unvaxxed ate domestic terrorists and our military recruiting people for these security positions.for a virus with 99.5%survival!really??read up on france.someone posted that unvaxxed cant get groceries in a store.wake up! This is not about covid.dont you all see??if people want to stay safe, wear a mask.its not political to wear a mask.its protecting oneself!if peoplw dont want to wear masks and do stupid things like (women)getting plasteted and staggering home with a stranger to get attacked or for people to sleep around unprotected, that is their stupidity.or should they putlaw sex and dating??or going to a hotel drunk w a dude and crying rspe...etc.i am female and not excusing any violence or daying anyone deserves these things.im just daying that people make informed choices and deal with consequences
Same with any vice or bad habit.but people shpuld have free choice.if you dont wanna be near them. Stay away and/or wear a mask.but people have a right to make a living without havi g to take poison that there is no liabolity for if it lwads to serious injury, hospitalization, and death.how is thete no liabilitu?what if you are one of these?my dad died of a rate cancer. But he was the one, so u never know.us it was never tested on pregnant women, so how can they declate it is safe?also, they vaxxed the original unvaxxed control group so thete is no longer a control group.again, not anti vax.im pro science and safety.if the cated, they would encourage self care, but no, they deplatform anyone who talks about wellness.if i am willing to gamble my life, that is my choice.
My son’s best friend tested positive yesterday. He’s 8. Just like my son, he was doing everything right and still contracted Covid at school. Every single antivax, anti mask, kids-don’t-get-Covid person can go straight to hell. You are why kids are filling up ICUs. I’m so angry.
CASES ARE AS HIGH AS THEY WERE IN FEBRUARY HOW ARE WE SENDING OUR UNVACCINATED KIDS BACK TO SCHOOL WHAT THE FUCK WAS THE LAST LOST YEAR FOR
Folks gotta realize that there is NOT going to be a remote option in September. There simply is not enough time to organize and implement a remote option on such a short time frame.
This is from the AP
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-970830023526
CLAIM: If you are unvaccinated, you can get COVID and have over 99% chance of survival. If you get vaccinated, you can STILL get COVID and will still have over 99% chance of survival.
AP’S ASSESSMENT: Missing context. On average about 98.2% of known COVID-19 patients in the U.S. survive, but each individual’s chance of dying from the virus will vary depending on their age, whether they have an underlying health condition and whether they are vaccinated. While people who are vaccinated can still get infected, these “breakthrough” cases are rare and vaccines dramatically reduce severe illness and death.
THE FACTS: As of July 23, there were more than 34.3 million known cases of COVID-19 in the United States and 610,370 deaths, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. That means the case fatality ratio -- or the portion of known cases that result in death in the country -- is 1.8%. In other words, on average, 98.2% of known COVID-19 patients in the U.S. survive. Because the true number of infections is much larger than just the documented cases, the actual survival rate of all COVID-19 infections is even higher than 98.2%.
A popular tweet this week, however, used the survival statistic without key context. “Unvaccinated, you can get COVID and have over 99% chance of survival. Get vaccinated and you can STILL get COVID and will still have over 99% chance of survival,” reads the tweet.
The message is misleading. The average for the entire country cannot be used to calculate an individual’s chance of dying from the virus. The likelihood that a COVID-19 infection will result in death increases with age and if the patient has a pre-existing condition..
Dr. Thomas Giordano, professor of medicine and section chief of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said the tweet ignores the fact that many people who survive COVID-19 have long-term symptoms, and that people who survive it can spread the disease to high risk patients who will not be as lucky.
“One in 500 people in the U.S. has died from COVID. To try to trivialize it and say it’s nothing, it doesn’t matter, I think it’s just a gross mischaracterization of what we are all living through,” Giordano told The Associated Press in a call.
Furthermore, vaccinated people are far less likely to become severely ill or die from COVID-19 compared to unvaccinated people.
Most vaccinated people with breakthrough infections experience mild illness, Dr. William Moss, a vaccine expert at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told the AP.
Giordano said compared to the average COVID-19 death rate in the U.S., “you look at what the vaccines can do, they decrease the risk of death and severe illness by more than 90 percent, 95 percent in the randomized studies.”
Data from May showed nearly all U.S. deaths from the virus were among people who haven’t received the vaccine, AP reporting found. About 99.5% of all deaths from COVID-19 are in the unvaccinated, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky has said.
Making believe everything is fine isn’t going to work. It didn’t work for Cuomo with his busy body parts and it isn’t going to work for deBlasio with Covid. The shame is there’s an opportunity right now to mitigate future death and suffering by initiating a remote option and working with parents and teachers, that is being disregarded out of hand for absolutely no legitimate reason other than more indifference and incompetence.
We aren't sending our kids to get sick.
Just stating facts on deaths and comparisons of Florida and Australia. The numbers aren't lying.
As for the heavy hand of the government, the Australian military is unarmed in Sydney enforcing the lockout.
BBC
"Delta outbreak which began in June has produced nearly 3,000 infections and led to nine deaths.
Australian Defence Force soldiers will undergo training on the weekend before beginning unarmed patrols on Monday."
The Guardian piece I linked to showed both sides.
James, now yhat u acknowledge the high survival rate, does it still make sense to mandate a vaccine to everyone even without underlying conditions-when the shot is experimental and caused many a lot of harm and death?
US Reopening schools plan in 3 phases
Phase 1: open all schools
Phase 2: OH SHIT, OH SHIT, OH SHIT!
Phase 3: Close all schools
I get this from state and federal so don' fuck around about sources.
If we are really serious about saving lives we should close the interstate highway system. 40,000 deaths annually could be saved by this measure.
And the fact that you're angry is a perfect explanation for why you are not making any sense
@3:30 I imagine that some of the vaccinated "pro-mandate" crowd are concerned about their young children who will be attending school. I wouldnt send my child to school under these circumstances. Some of the people looking for a remote option for teachers are unvaccinated. That shouldnt he allowed. No vaccine, no entry.
@4:56 they could I'd they move the start date. It wont be new like last year so its doable. Even though it was a complete fiasco. Students who were programmed for in-person were allowed to log on remotely. And students could never remember which was their alternate Monday. Some in-person students had all remote teachers and no supervision because they went to whatever computer lab they wanted to. Some in-person teachers made a stink about teaching live and remote so their live students went to a computer lab while the teachers sat in their empty rooms logged into their Google classroom. It was a mess.
I love how @UFT has been dead silent on everything. It’s sad seeing all these other teachers unions speaking up, and ours tweeting about emotional well being when their inaction is causing everyone to be crazed.
See that @uft @aft @rweingarten. It’s not like your platitudes contradictions and doublespeak are fooling anyone other than those already inclined to grasp onto to confirmation bias and misguided agendas long ago.
James, Thank you for providing context. You are correct in that risk is absolutely influenced by age and co-morbidities. That’s actually the point I was trying to make. If people are older(50+) or have chronic conditions or are simply in a state of constant fear from Big Pharma funded gov. and media (Go ask your doctor about...insert new pharmaceutical here), then getting a shot that retards symptoms might help them (particularly psychologically). For those who fall into that 99%+ survival rate, why force this new medical technology on them when the risks outweigh the reward?
The Economist even made a risk calculator for COVID. Of course it states the following: “ Users should not interpret these results as a personalised risk assessment. Any given individual’s risk will differ from the group average that our model estimates. Readers seeking medical advice should consult a doctor. Rare combinations of inputs can produce unreliable results (see FAQ).”
Regardless, I think it brings some lucidity to our debate here in contrast to the deliberate obfuscation and fear mongering of the gov., media, and politically tribalist COVID fanatics.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator
One point in the article you cited actually bolsters my argument. Here is the quote: “Because the true number of infections is much larger than just the documented cases, the actual survival rate of all COVID-19 infections is even higher than 98.2%.”
So once again, do we really need more lockdowns and universal vaccine mandates for this?
@7:04pm. I understand your concerns about the under 12 crowd. Then maybe a remote option should be on the table for parents and students who are afraid. If there is indeed a significant portion of parents who want a remote option, the city should offer some semblance of a remote option for them. It might help all parties on a social-emotional level. And at this point, it seems like my students are more at risk from social-emotional issues from lockdowns and fear mongering than COVID itself.
On the other hand, your “no vaccine, no entry” comment seems misinformed. The shots do not stop infection or the spread. They only decrease symptoms and potentially can give you a host of adverse reactions.
“Alarming CDC Memo Reveals Vaccinated Individuals Spread Delta Variant as Much as the Unvaccinated”
https://thecincinnatiherald.com/2021/07/alarming-cdc-memo-reveals-vaccinated-individuals-spread-delta-variant-as-much-as-the-unvaccinated/
And I know the article says that everyone must get vaccinated. The reason all this news is coming out now is to prime the public for constant annual booster shots. What a racket !
James,
the comparison is not perfect, but nor is it bad.
But picking on Florida may not be 100% fair (even if De Santis is such a big gaping target). In all of the US, measures at every stage of this pandemic have been halfway, or worse. Even here in New York State. How many lives would have been saved if Cuomo had responded as if this were a pandemic, instead of the flu?
By the way, I notice that no one here claiming this is like the flu is using their name. Figures.
Jonathan
Dem Governor.
Lamping Elementary in Henderson will immediately transition to distance learning due to a number of positive COVID-19 cases on campus.
I agree Jonathan that it isn't a perfect comparison. Florida compared to Australia was done by Dr Michael Osterholm on his podcast last week because of the similar population size. I never miss his CIDRAP podcast.
Democratic states haven't done well with COVID and by the way Australia is under conservative rule while neighboring New Zealand is under a Labor government and still has a phenomenal Covid record. We can compare New Zealand to Minnesota to get the Democrat-Republican argument out of this.
If the blue states think that COVID is not going to tear through their children, they are wrong.
10:13 OF COURSE the blue states know that COVID is going to tear through their children, which is why they are trying to get in front of this. Right wingers have some kind of death wish, but not for themselves, because even though those in power, who are advocating against the vaccine and other mandates are vaccinated themselves. Sick stuff.
They'd rather talk about Florida & Texas.. While dem Govs are using the same mitigation strategies as them which are NONE 😣
Republicans proudly disregard all science any semblance of human ethics -only worship power and grievance to unworthy outsiders. Dems hypocritically embrace inadequate mitigation theater doublespeak, criticizing others and feigning moral superiority.
@7:04 You said "On the other hand, your “no vaccine, no entry” comment seems misinformed. The shots do not stop infection or the spread. They only decrease symptoms and potentially can give you a host of adverse reactions."
My comment is not misinformed because I didn't comment on which way was more effective at stopping the spread of infection. I just feel that if you are going to take a stand that you have a right to make your choices and you choose not to vaccinate for non-medical reasons then you don't also get have the right to work remotely, while the rest of us, who did take the vaccine, despite the risks, get to trudge all the way in the cold winter months, monitor your students who are in person.
If it's mandated that you must have a vaccine to enter the building then you're just out of luck. Actually, since, as you say, the vaccinated can also spread the virus, if there is going to be a remote option then perhaps at a minimum it should be based on seniority and not vaccination status.
Still, the decision makers will not be asking me what I think of the matter, but that's my opinion.
10:22 And you? High on your horse passing judgment on us all.
@10:21 Masking is a mitigation strategy. You may disagree, or mock it or whatever, but it is recommended.
https://news.yahoo.com/florida-school-district-calls-emergency-221412347.html
In Florida, 1,241 students and employees of the Hillsborough County Public School have tested positive for Covid-19 since August 2, according to the school district’s Covid-19 tracker
https://www.msn.com/en-
us/news/us/lancaster-county-south-carolina-student-covid-death-16-year-old-dies-from-covid-19-complications-as-school-district-struggles-with-infections/ar-AANnF34?ocid=se
Kids are dying. This is no joke
Here is my covid strategy:
If you get sick, you get sick
If you die, you die
You snowflakes are pathetic
What a genius 10:59. That is the thinking of too many in a country with 621,000 Covid-19 deaths.
8/16
—35 new covid cases in NYC summer school programs.
—13 students, 22 staff
—33 new classroom closures, 215 total
—2 new school investigations into schools with multiple cases, total of 4 in progress
10:59 - You must not have children. Then again, maybe you do. That's depraved thinking. I'll bet you're a pro-life Republican. Only care about life when it's in someone else's womb.
Georgia school districts are shutting down one by one, and Kemp is holding fast to his no mask mandate".
We will open in Sept, we will close by Oct. We don't have proper ventilation and no mask is going to solve it, nor will packed classrooms and even worse hallways and stairwells.
Deblasio and Chancellor Porter should rot in hell for giving families no choice.
Hey 11:36, I’m not 10:59, but how can you be for saving children from Covid and not be pro life? Do you realize you insult all of us by the way you just reacted to 1059? 1059‘s comments were disgusting, but so are yours. I’m pro life and I’m not a Republican. There’s a lot of Democrats that are pro-life but are totally ignored and disregarded by the party.
Keep your 8 year old bubble wrapped in your basement if you’re terrified. If all he needs is a box of tissues, stop the hysterics. COVID hospitalizations for children range from .2% to 1.9%. Deaths for children with COVID range from 0% to .03%. 10500 kids per year get cancer. Bad shit happens.
James, It’s clear that we should examine a variety of sources but I do want to warn you about Michael Osterholm. He is one of the high priests of the new state religion of COVID hysteria. Look at how embarrassingly wrong he was last March: Virus Expert Just Warned of Coming COVID “Hurricane”
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/virus-expert-just-warned-coming-195840328.html
He said this in March 2021 when both cases and deaths were falling. Can you not see that certain media figures and outlets are pumping fear non stop? Even with Delta, cases are obviously up but they are not a death sentence as I’ve clearly shown in previous comments. The death rate for NY state has been relatively low. The 7 day average COVID death toll for all of NY state is currently at 19 people.
And as elites know to never let a good crisis go to waste, here is Osterholm’s latest new enterprise, Grip Molecular. Next generation graphene biosensors enabling lab quality diagnostics ... at home
https://www.gripmolecular.com/
Here’s a quote from Osterholm on the main page: “There is a need for bio-electric diagnostic platform technology with the ability to detect multiple diseases and detect both the active infection and the host response in a single sample. This technology would position the healthcare system to respond differently to a future pandemic situation. The GRIP team and their UMN collaborators are working to develop this innovative diagnostic technology.”
Does anyone notice a host of perverse incentives to prolong COVID hysteria? Do Americans really want to transform their nation into a biomedical security state mimicking the wet dreams of CCP technocrats? I know some people here can only interpret reality through the lens of blue team vs. red team so before anyone points the finger, I’m not a Republican.
There should be a permanent remote option in all public schools and covid just one reason. The fact is that many students thrived in remote learning. There is no bullying, stealing, fighting, etc. that is all too common in our public schools. Also, less students in schools means less students taking school busses which expose pollution into the air. Smaller classes in school buildings mean more attention can be spent on all. Yeah, I know having a remote option will mean less teachers, but as we all know, teaching universities are facing an all time low enrollment.
Abortion is the only choice democrats want Americans to have. Fuck all of you.
Florida's anti-safety measures compare poorly to New York's half-measures.
But we are still seeing half-measures in New York.
Which means that there are two groups - the nut jobs who think COVID is just like the flu, and that being required to wear a mask is an assault on freedom - and the Democratic politicians who want to take some measures, but not too many, and who want to open things, including schools, as quickly as they can while conveniently cherrypicking data - two groups who are imperiling our safety.
The New York Times and I-stay-at-home-You-go-to-school reporter Eliza Shapiro fall in that second category. Some of the anonymous posters here fall in the first. Yuck.
Dr Osterholm fully acknowledged that he was wrong about B117 not exploding outside of a couple of states in the US in the spring and those podcasts where he made the inaccurate predictions remain online.
He says there is corrected science and talks about us needing humility with the virus. I respect that. He also said in March 2020 on Joe Rogan that we could lose close to half a million from the pandemic. That proved spot on. That said, yes I agree we need to turn to a variety of sources on the pandemic which I do as you can see if you look. I tend to listen more to those who admit they don't know everything but just tell you what they know and don't insult your intelligence.
The people who said the pandemic was over were hopelessly wrong. Those who said this is just the flu are completely off too.
This expert said we'll have herd immunity by April 2021.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/well-have-herd-immunity-by-april-11613669731
Remember when variants were called scariants.
My favorite is in June when that noted scientist Michael Mulgrew said we've reached herd immunity.
Jonathan, Very well analyzed.
Rachel Cohen has a good piece (focused on schools) in the New Republic:
New School Year, Same Old Covid Chaos
https://newrepublic.com/article/163287/kids-vaccine-covid-schools-reopening-delta-cdc
@9:20 Great points. The option could work for a variety of students. I guess the counter is that it could lead to a further push for ever expanding remote learning and an attempt to increase outsourcing and/or automation of education.
@Jonathan. I heard NZ is locking down again after 1 case. Is that the response you are advocating for? To me, it doesn’t seem sustainable in the long term both socially and economically. And even politically because once governments have new powers, they are often reluctant to relinquish those powers. I hope you can see the parallels between the War of Terror and the War on COVID (I’m not sure of the official term for gov. and media response to COVID).
@James. Thank you for being open minded and engaging in discourse. I thought my comments would be censored here given the overall trend of censoring dissident voices when it comes to COVID. I am happy to be wrong with that assumption.
Also, I’m impressed with Osterholm’s humility. I don’t think I see that with Fauci, who famously declared “an attack on him (Fauci) is an attack on science”. Once again though, look at the hyperbolic language being used: “hurricane”, “explosion”. It appears that people are being inundated with fear inducing propaganda reminiscent of the War of Terror and many are unable to critically see through it once again.
Great counter with the WSJ link. Makary was definitely wrong with his prediction. At the time, I thought he may be right. And as May unfolded, the situation looked improved. And as I showed before, despite the rise in cases, mortality from COVID is still low. And I know what I’m about to say is currently considered heresy but here it is: Maybe the mass symptom retardant campaign is creating new variants. Right now, this idea is a conspiracy theory. Maybe in 6 months it will be accepted as fact.
I never heard the term scariant. It’s a fitting term though. Most diseases become less deadly as they spread. I think that is what is happening with Delta. Quicker spread, less deadly. For those wondering, what the hell is wrong with Doug and why isn’t he afraid? Here is my approach:
I read news instead of watching it. I rely mostly on raw data instead of Big Pharma- funded media interpretations. Notice how they love to use percentages to instill fear. Instead, you can just Google “COVID stats” and see the actual numbers of cases and deaths per country/state/county/city.
So please DYOR and stop falling for fear. And if you are still afraid and stricken with reason-resistant herd mentality, then get your symptom retardant every 8 months and leave the rest of us to be free.
"My body...my choice"?
No?
12:33..yeah. maybe they will dig in and not close while they work from their ivory towers
Jonathan. There are many in the category of I’m vaccinated and since 99+% of vaccinated are fine if they contract virus, I’m not sweating who is wearing a mask or who is vaccinated. Then there’s the unvaccinated, mind your business, category. They say, If I die, it’s none of your business. If you’re vaccinated, you are protected from me. I’m in the former category and think the masks have become about control so no I’m not wearing one and am spending my money in places that don’t ask me to. I won’t show my vax card to get in anywhere either. Democrats never wanted to close anything, until Trump wanted them open. Once you lost Trump, you lost any real opposition to opening up.
@1:14 "I won't show my vax card to get in anywhere either". Hopefully that includes the schools.
Strange post for teacher union blog.
@1:01 You're insulted by comments saying this is depraved but not by his comments? Fuck you too then.
"Here is my covid strategy:
If you get sick, you get sick
If you die, you die
You snowflakes are pathetic"
You want to compare living children in the here and now, to embryos and clumps of cells? I guess you're offended because the shoe fits. You're another depraved idiot.
@1:01 I don't think you're Democrat and pro-life. How are you "ignored" by Democrats? Being pro-choice means you have the choice to do as YOU please. How about you not put your nose into other people's bodies and business and stop defending deviants who don't care if children die?
@10:00 - you sound really dumb and uneducated to make such an utterly ridiculous comment.
@5:44 so 8 yr olds should go in-person but you should have the option to work from home? Is that how it works in your pathetic mind? Bad shit happens and hopefully it will happen to you!
Just read the Rachel Cohen piece, Jonathan. It describes the current situation quite well.
Doug, I just looked up the New Zealand numbers and did a rough comparison with the US. The population is around 5 million and they have had 26 deaths from COVID. The US population is 333 million. We are 66 times bigger. So if we multiply 26 X 66 we get 1,716. That's about how many deaths we should have if we compared ourselves to New Zealand. We have 622,000 COVID deaths in the United States. By my social studies teacher math, you are about 362 times more likely to die from COVID in the US compared to New Zealand when we adjust for population size.
Yes I know there are many other factors but yeah I think I would rather use New Zealand's approach and PM Jacinda Ardern is no fascist dictator.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2021/aug/17/jacinda-ardern-announces-three-day-lockdown-after-single-covid-case-video
“You sound really dumb” hahaha. You’re face is dumb and you smell bad. Hahaha. Ahhh reminiscing. Haven’t had that argument since kindergarten.
James, Your social studies teacher math is probably right. But at what costs? Look at the collateral damage socially, economically, and politically caused by never ending lockdowns.
Yes, you are correct. She is not a national socialist (fascist) dictator. However, even Jacobin magazine highlights the fact that she is indeed a socialist (though she doesn’t meet their high standards for left wing authoritarianism).
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/05/new-zealand-labour-party-socialists-jacinda-ardern
“ Asked whether she, too, was a socialist, Ardern — once president of the International Union of Socialist Youth — professed that “I’ve always described myself as a democratic socialist” but that “I have never found those terms particularly useful in New Zealand because we do not tend to talk in those terms here.”
Now of course she’s no Stalin or even Maduro, but the moment I heard about NZ’s national lockdown, I knew it reeked of left wing authoritarianism. Her lockdown approach mimicked the CCP. Authoritarianism, whether left, right, monarchical, or technocratic should be universally abhorrent.
I’m under the impression that you might endorse the Zero COVID initiative? Do you indeed support that initiative?
Agree1157. When you’re being stripped of freedom it doesn’t matter what label (nazi, communist etc) your oppressors have. When you beg for the left to exert control, you’re also going to have to live with the right exerting their version of control when they’re back in the majority. I want neither democrats nor republicans screwing with American freedom.
We are seeing a great test of the limits of Zero Covid in Australia and New Zealand. I predict Jacinda Ardern will get it right in NZ because the people support her and her science advisor (Dr Bloomfield) who she shares the stage with at pressers. She calls the population a team of 5 million. She tells vaccinated people to follow rules just like unvaccinated. She says vaccination isn't the only answer.
NZ just had 6 months of no community COVID but now they have their first 10 delta cases. People there do their part when asked. It is amazing. I watched interviews on BBC today with regular New Zealanders. In addition, they had a free and fair election in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic. She won a record majority. No tryanny.
If you have followed this blog, we have favored eliminating community spread since March 2020. Please look at our past postings.
Doug, Authoritarianism is just the opposite of libertarianism. We have destroyed the term here. All it reflects is an enforcement of laws, regulations, order... the normal things that we have here.
As for the National Socialist/Nazi reference.. the Nazis just co-opted the term to appeal to the german working class. They were a flat out right wing government that combined capitalist businesses with the state apparatus. I guess their ruse still works on some people. Remember, the socialist/communists, and labor organizer, were among the first victims of the Nazis.
Should we do absolutely nothing, or do something, and be, dare i say, authoritarian!? Gasp!
Thanks for clarifying your position, James. I had a feeling you supported the Zero COVID strategy. I’ve been reading your blog since last summer. Your blog has proved to be vital in helping teachers to learn and discuss issues relevant to the profession. Whereas on Arthur’s blog, it’s become a bit redundant and I’ve seen comments that were edited. I’ve heard accusations of censorship there but I haven’t seen any proof. His style of debate too often degenerates into volleys of ad-hominems if you disagree with him. So thanks again for your efforts.
I’m surprised and a little more relieved that Arden realizes that mass medical experimentation is not the only answer. I hope more politicians realize that. I will even concede that perhaps small nation-states such as New Zealand, whose populace apparently widely supports these measures, can experiment and have some short-term success with Zero COVID policies. I doubt the policies are sustainable in the long-term and Zero COVID is already being called into question by the very countries practicing it.
Covid-19 cases are rising in countries praised for stopping outbreaks. Do they need to change their strategies?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/08/asia/delta-covid-zero-china-australia-intl-dst-hnk/index.html
“Now the fresh outbreaks are throwing the zero Covid strategy favored by China and Australia into question, and prompting a larger debate about just how sustainable the approach is.”
“ Longer term, though, many experts think a zero Covid strategy isn't sustainable. Eventually, all countries will want to open up to the world again -- and when they do, they may need to accept that some people would likely get ill, a hard shift in Asia-Pacific countries used to keeping the virus out altogether.
"Unless you're prepared to cut yourself off from society forever, you're going to have Covid in your country. So it's a question of when you let it in, and when you live with it," Fisher said.
That shift could be tough politically.
In China, for instance, officials and state media have praised the country's strategy and its success as a sign of Chinese superiority, said Huang, from the Council on Foreign Relations. The government would need to justify its decision if it moves from a zero Covid to a mitigation approach, he said.
"This containment-based approach is still popular among the Chinese populous, in a way that's a reflection (of) how this has been so internalized among the Chinese people. They accepted it as the only effective approach in coping with the pandemic," he said. "So we're not talking not just about the shift of the incentive structure of the government officials, but also to change the mindset of the people, to prepare them for a new strategy."
China: How Delta threatens a prized zero Covid strategy
https://news.yahoo.com/china-delta-threatens-prized-zero-135654184.html
“There is also the question of losing face.
The successes of zero Covid allowed the Chinese government "to claim that this approach is superior to the Western approach, which is associated with general failure in containing the virus, and even claim the superiority of the Chinese political system," said Prof Huang.
"If they start abandoning it and turn to mitigation, they are basically endorsing a Western approach that they had trashed."
Looming divide
With relatively few deaths since Wuhan and an economy on the rebound, some in China may not feel the need to change.
But a long-term zero Covid strategy also has its risks.
Mass lockdowns affect poorer people much more than others, and also affect a population's mental health over the long run, pointed out Nancy Jecker, a professor of bioethics at the University of Washington School of Medicine.“
James, if we are to conduct a Zero COVID approach in the U.S., then for how long? And since there are more sheep than people in New Zealand, what do we do about the recalcitrant Americans who disagree with your approach?
@509. Wow ! What a lame attempt to normalize the term authoritarianism.
Here’s the actual definition from a dictionary: 1. Characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority, as against individual freedom: an authoritarian regime.
2. Tending to tell other people what to do in a peremptory or arrogant manner. See Synonyms at dictatorial.
For some reason, there were pictures of Fauci, Cuomo, Newsom, Whitmer, and countless other COVID tyrants next to the word.
Mussolini, the progenitor of fascism, was originally a socialist. He was disgusted with the pacifist tendencies of socialists during WW1 so he added a nationalist focus to socialism while rejecting socialist notions of egalitarianism.
You are correct that the Nazis targeted the left first.
Your final question is excellent. I believe in decentralized solutions. We can not centrally plan our way out of COVID, Too much collateral damage.
529. Thank you for a well thought out comment. I’d like to respond to the question you asked James at the end. There is nothing anyone can do. We’re Americans. Those of us who have never taken our freedom for granted are not going to stop fighting for it. The minute Xenophobia against China was used against Trump, the politics ensured that both sides would dig in their heels. Trump and republicans played their political roles too. Not just blaming democrats for poor handling of COVID. We missed our chance to have a united front and nothing has changed that would give us a chance at unifying most Americans around a COVID message. Some democrats like DeBlasio think they can use force via mandates. I’m doubtful it’s going to work in nyc but I’m sure it will not work nation wide. Americans who have never taken their freedom for granted and have benefitted from conversations with Americans from Cuba or Yugoslavia see the behavior of the Democrat Party and their handlers Big Tech as a legitimate threat to our country. It’s not just the vaccines. The Republican Party is a problem too. They’re not off the hook. But as of now they’re not the party enabling marxists who would love nothing more than to control American citizens with an iron fist.
How abput the 50%unvaxxed dont show up to work.put the city at a standstill and he will reverse the mandates
You don't have the courage of your convictions to strike. If you did, it would keep the rest of us safe.
Please go right ahead. Do us all a favor.
How would that unvaccinated strike keep you safe if you are “vaccinated” ? You dumb fucks don’t realize that “vaccinated” people can still spread COVID. Even the CDC director admitted that. Y’all can’t even “follow the science “. SMH
@7:03 except that it is dumb to claim that Democrats only want an abortion option. Does that sound rational to you?
Well of course vaccinated folks can still spread COVID and they'll continue to spread as long as a large portion of the population refuses to vaccinate just to make a point that "nobody's going to tell me what to do. Sounds more like a bratty teenager argument.
Go ahead and strike. You guys couldn't even hunker down and go on a lockdown for two months without losing it over seeds and paint.
Doug, that definition is, as i said, the opposite of libertarianism. you can make it extreme if you choose, but it is just like what we have here.. law and order, authority, rules, regulations.
Yes, Mussolini went from the left to the right and gave birth to modern fascism. and?
No one should be "locked down" (or, to go back to a former controversy, "stopped questioned and frisked") for 2 seconds let alone 2 months without probable cause, due process, a grand jury, or a trial by jury.
Let me ask you about metal detectors in schools. Is that a violation of the students' 4th Amendment rights?
How about road-blocks during a manhunt?
What about shelter in place during a manhunt? I was told to get inside once as a murderer was on the loose in the neighborhood.
What about lights out mandates during a war?
Look up Lincoln suspending habeas corpus during the Civil War?
Freedoms are not absolute. Never were.
James I agree that liberty doesn't mean anarchy. I just think the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of collectivism over individual rights. As for your questions:
Metal detectors: In general, yes (it's a violation). Definitely the way the DOE does its random screenings isn't right. Unless there is a spate of shootings and stabbings in a particular building and the parents and/or Union asks for them, they don't belong at the school entrances. For what it's worth though I don't really buy the "school to prison pipeline" argument here either, as most kids don't complain about metal detectors when going to concerts, sporting events, and Disney.
I'm also against random drug testing in school, and that's been approved by the Court.
Manhunts: In the case of Tsarnaev the Boston Bomber, or an "active shooter", ok. In any other case where danger isn't imminent the authorities should do detective work and get a warrant to find and arrest the criminal.
Lights out: Tough call given the context. I know there were Brits who resisted it during the Blitz. At least in WWII there was a Declaration of War approved by Congress, we've fought so many wars improperly since then with no war declaration. In any case the Germans were using radio beams to pinpoint targets and though I'm not a historian as far as I know the Battle of the Beams and Turing cracking the enigma code was far more important. Obviously in 2021 it would be pointless.
Lincoln: I don't have as high of an opinion as others for Lincoln and that's a significant reason why.
I surmise you'll say these are all legal - but like you pointed out with conscription, there are things the government might get away with but SHOULD not do even if it CAN.
How can u compare metal detectors and airport screening to this situation?nobody wants to be on a hijacked plane.personally, i would not fly from an airport that had the detailed body scanners.too personal for me.o dont want my privates on someones computer .private is private.pat down ok. Guns are illegal.i welcome metal detectors.not invasive, not harmful.no comparison.
8:51 people complained that they do more work at school cuz of remote staff at home...you dont want half the city workers to be home.that means us, transit, sanitation, fire, police, etc.it would be madness.why dont u all vaccinated folks unite and hang out and get each other sick and dont blame anyone else.you all drank a batch of kool aid.face the sad reality.they lied.
A high school i worked in had ALL kids through metal detectors.nothing to hide, non intrusive, i like it.for the humor, i did not like going to the israel day parade and having my purse opened.i did not like a male inspector seeing tampons in my purse.nice for trying to keep safe, but a weapon can be stashed anywhete besides a handbag.what a joke of a security protocol.
As for airport, u have no idea what they do with the body scans or whixh gender sees them.
Not willing to give up liberty for those drunk on fake news. Hospitalizations and deaths for children and the vaccinated is very rare.
"give up liberty" is the new right wing catch phrase. Business owners in red states all over the country are forced to give up the liberty to run their business as they deem safe, by being forced to allow unmasked, unvaccinated customers into their businesses, but these "won't give up liberty" hypocrites have no problem with that. Same with local schools who want to protect their "under 12" students by requiring they wear a mask - they'll risk losing funding for the schools, risk their jobs, and the "won't give up liberty" hypocrites don't have a problem with this either. If you don't want to follow the rules GO ELSEWHERE. Homeschool your kids, don't go to your local bar, stay home. Find a right-wing run business to work at. How 'bout that?
Not going anywhere, 914. Get used to it. Liberty!
8:52 OF COURSE you're not going anywhere. You guys never do. Just boo hoo, whine and complain. So much for everyone else's liberty. You're so quick to tell other groups to get the hell out. Pathetic HYP-O-CRITE.
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