Friday, April 30, 2021

LANCET RESEARCH SHOWS THAT COVID ELIMINATION IS MORE EFFECTIVE THAN MITIGATION; SHOULD COVID VACCINES EVENTUALLY BE MANDATED IN SCHOOLS?

For people who really want to return to normal pre-COVID living, I highly recommend reading this Lancet research. The authors find that five countries that chose a rapid elimination strategy with full lockdowns (Australia, Iceland, Japan, New Zealand, and South Korea) have fared much better than advanced countries that have attempted mitigation (the United States, Israel, the UK, France, Germany, etc.) They then write about getting this pandemic under control internationally as we move ahead.

From the study on mortality:

COVID-19 deaths per 1 million population in OECD countries that opted for elimination (Australia, Iceland, Japan, New Zealand, and South Korea) have been about 25 times lower than in other OECD countries that favoured mitigation. Mortality is a proxy for a country’s broader disease burden. For example, decision makers should also consider the increasing evidence of long-term morbidities after SARS-CoV-2 infection.

What about economic performance?

There is also increasing consensus that elimination is preferable to mitigation in relation to a country’s economic performance. One study quantified the optimal basic reproduction number so that elimination is achieved at minimal economic cost. To this end, consider weekly GDP growth with respect to 2019 for the OECD countries that opted for elimination or mitigation. Elimination is superior to mitigation for GDP growth on average and at almost all time periods. GDP growth returned to pre-pandemic levels in early 2021 in the five countries that opted for elimination, whereas growth is still negative for the other 32 OECD countries.

Oh and then there is freedom?

Among OECD countries, liberties were most severely impacted in those that chose mitigation, whereas swift lockdown measures—in line with elimination—were less strict and of shorter duration. Importantly, elimination has been framed as a civic solidarity approach that will restore civil liberties the soonest; this focus on common purpose is frequently neglected in the political debate.

The conclusion:

National action alone is insufficient and a clear global plan to exit the pandemic is necessary. Countries that opt to live with the virus will likely pose a threat to other countries, notably those that have less access to COVID-19 vaccines. The uncertainty of lockdown timing, duration, and severity will stifle economic growth as businesses withhold investments and consumer confidence deteriorates. Global trade and travel will continue to be affected. Political indecisiveness and partisan policy decisions reduce trust in government. This does not bode well in those countries that have seen a retraction of democracy. Meanwhile, countries opting for elimination are likely to return to near normal: they can restart their economies, allow travel between green zones, and support other countries in their vaccination campaigns and beyond. The consequences of varying government COVID-19 responses will be long-lasting and extend beyond the end of the pandemic. Early economic and political gains made by countries aiming to eliminate SARS-CoV-2 will probably pay off in the long run.

Green zones and vaccine passports look like they are going to be an issue as we move forward.

NY is definitely trending positive with COVID-19 as more and more of us are vaccinated but we are still in an orange zone with the virus continuing to spread in the community.

Educators of NYC has a survey out that thousands of educators, parents, and community activists have responded to so far.  I am somewhat surprised that preliminary results show overwhelming majorities support mandatory vaccinations for students and educators. This is not a scientific poll but the numbers are fascinating.




You can take the survey by clicking here.



85 comments:

Anonymous said...

James,

That survey results are flawed. I am shocked that even though teachers who took the survey that are the driving force in the respondents for the survey felt that the DOE and the mayor have a vote of confidence and have done an exemplary job in the past, present and future of schools during the covid epidemic.

Anonymous said...

6:49,Maybe your circle of colleagues are the minority.

Anonymous said...

https://nypost.com/2021/04/30/nyc-doe-baffles-parents-bungles-middle-school-admission-offers/

Anonymous said...

We can't vaccinate the world bc waiving patents hurts big pharma.

We can't solve the climate crisis bc doing so would affect industry profits -- fossil fuels, transportation, etc.

We can't have free health care bc it'll hurt the insurance industry.

This ain't working...

Anonymous said...

Put the Trump supporting anti vaxers on unpaid leaves. Their hero Trump got vaxed. Or send them to work at that school in Florida where the head does not permit people vaccinated to work live with kids.

Anonymous said...

Getting a vaccine is a personal choice. Teachers need to go back to work. Whether they choose to get vaccinated before returning is up to them. For the millionth time anyone who takes medical/vaccine advicefrom a president is a moron. Trump voter here. Don’t take my medical advice from politicians but if I did, how would I choose based on Biden. I watch what he does. No need to get vaccinated because he is vaccinated as are those around him yet still masks up and distances so the message is why bother getting vaccinated. Open schools fully. WHO says lockdowns harm the poor. Are we not believing them now that Trump is gone? Hard to keep up with the ever changing so called experts and who the democrats put stock in.

Anonymous said...

Comparing countries when it comes to all CoVid-19 related matters is insignificant. There are too many variables involved.

I do not think you can mandate vaccines but you can mandate that people do their jobs. Teachers need to get back to work.

I think CoVid has helped everyone to realize how untrustworthy, misguided, and unscrupulous all those in authority in the US and around the world have been regarding all things CoVid. A huge concern I have about mandating vaccines is that this may lead to mandating other health related or life related issues. Has anyone ever read Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut?

Anonymous said...

Two Points: 1) If the DOE mandates vaccines for teachers there WILL be a class action lawsuit and I will gladly sign on as a petitioner. 2) I already have a "Vaccine Passport" and it is called The Bill of Rights. This is not about Trump, it is about the government forcing people to either take an experimental vaccine that has caused death or give up their jobs. People keep saying that Covid and the vaccine are not a political issue but they are. Biden and his minions keep touting that we can open up and not wear masks outside yet he and his crew continue to wear masks outside even while vaccinated. The Covid crisis shows that the majority of people in this country will pretty much line up like sheep and do anything that the government says. I will end this post by quoting Ronald Reagan: "The worst words to be uttered are, I'm from the government and here to help".

Anonymous said...

I agree with your post. Numbers are falling, not only because of the vaccine, but also because the weather is getting warmer. As New York becomes completely open there will be a danger. The danger will become apparent when the weather gets cold again. Then look for the crap to start all over again. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
One more thing, slightly off-topic. I find it more than a little ironic that the Uft has refused to come out with a statement against sexual harassment or a statement against Cuomo, while at the same time endorsing the newly accused Scott Stringer for mayor.

Melissa said...

Any person who claims to care about black people but is not fighting for school choice is lying to you.

Black kids are trapped in schools that are graduating kids who can’t read & can’t function or succeed in the real world.

Dems are fighting to keep these kids trapped. Why?

Anonymous said...

So does this mean all medical accommodations end so people stop milking it? What does Trump have to do with it? You think all the uft members staying home for no reason are Trump voters? Are students required to get vaccinated?

Anonymous said...

I just read the Bill of Rights. I am still looking for the amendment that says you have the right to infect people with an airborne disease at work. I can't seem to find that right.

Israel is doing vaccine passports to be at things like sporting events. Kids need to be vaccinated to get into schools or college in the US. There is such a thing as civic responsibility. There are medical exceptions in the question.

Go work in that Miami private school if you don't want to be vaccinated. A vaccine passport to work in a NYC school or attend one is a great idea especially if the whacko conspiracy theorist crowd won't take shots.

Anonymous said...

9:19. The UFT is a political wing of the democrat party. No one in the democrat or republican party gives a shit if serial rapists or serial sexual harassers are among them as long as the scumbag is in their party. Both parties are filled 99% with assholes. I vote for the asshole who rejects state sanctioned racism and who doesn’t want to raise my taxes. It also helps if they stopped wearing a mask outside or after getting vaccinated. I can’t take seriously anyone who masks up outdoors or who masks up while vaccinated. These are silly people who deserve to be mocked and voted out of office. Wearing a mask is not patriotic. Fighting for the enforcement of Constitutional freedoms is.

Anonymous said...

Melissa, School choice is a scam. By pitting us all against each other and siphoning off the top students, private, charter and elite public schools leave the most needy kids in the neighborhood public schools to show them as failures. The goal is to close them and keep a permanent underclass.

I agree with vaccine passports. Nobody is forcing you to work in a public school. If you don't have a medical exemption, get the shots or find a new job. This should go into effect as soon as the emergency use authorization ends and there is regular approval.

Anonymous said...

If it would just force the ultra right wing commenters here to get a vaccine or go on an unpaid leave, mandatory vaccines for teachers would be totally worth it.

Anonymous said...

9:32: The principals are the enablers when they blame the teachers for the kids failing or not showing up to class and the teachers are just to blame when they give into pressure and pass kids in droves who deserve to fail due to pressure from administration. There is also this false belief that you are a better teacher if you have more kids passing. When teachers stand up for themselves and give kids the grades they deserve, the kids won't graduate unable to read and write. Otherwise we're still going to have these meaningless diplomas rolled out. Did you notice that the graduation rate in most schools went up considerably last year because of the absence of the Regents yet the schools are bragging about it? Where is the supposed learning loss?

Anonymous said...

If any teacher or any person for that matter—over 18 years old —want to use their personal choice to decline a vaccine, please send their doses immediately to the people suffering in India.

Anonymous said...

Mandatory vaccine to teach in NYC. Great idea. Make every Trumper decide. You won't be terminated, just put on an unpaid leave.

Shelley said...


from Baker MG, Wilson N, Blakely T. Elimination could be the optimal response
strategy for Covid-19 and other emerging pandemic diseases. BMJ 2020;
371: m4907.


"Fortunately, both countries [Australia and New Zealand] had a brief period to refine their approaches before the first reported covid-19 case arrived on 25 January in Australia and 26 February in New Zealand. This timing gave them an opportunity to learn from the effects of the pandemic on countries in the northern hemisphere and consider the different response strategies."

Perhaps fortune has played an even larger part in the crisis than these early studies suggest. We will find out when we can view the crisis in the rearview mirror, a perspective the US is closing in on.

In any event, thanks for the article. I would note, as well, that the author makes judicious use of the full chart of options (see Baker MG, Wilson N, Blakely T. for the chart) and, makes clear that "Choosing a strategy is not necessarily a fixed path, and countries might change their approach."

The GDP correlations (the author notes that there is no causal relationship) are dubious, as the figures are now dated and lumping OECD counties on one side of the scale fails to account for the radically different economies and the very different monetary and fiscal policies used to deal with crisis in each of the countries.


Contrast the extraordinary stimulus (monetary and fiscal) of the US, and the V-recovery here, with the failure of policy in most OECD countries.

In this respect, the US, the country where the last crisis started (the housing bubble financial crisis) was in the position of China today (the start of the current crisis), and the US emerged first and strongest from the last crisis as China did in this one.

The difference is that the US, in part through of great fortune (luck and wealth) and in part through of ingenuity (scientific and financial) has applied the lessons of the last crisis and done even more, way more, to fight this one.

The politics has been a drag on all responses, less so in countries like China, where the politics is centralized and freedom, as the article suggests, is easily curtailed. Though liberty is not a trade off Americans are willing or even able to make, or even consider, even if one is able to get passed the idea that it needn't be a trade off. Though in the current state of disposition, where Yahooism reigns supreme, it doesn't matter much as most are not even willing to engage in considerations of anything but the echo chambers of their tribe.

Anonymous said...

9:40. The same constitutional right to privacy that gave us Roe v. Wade applies. But using you logic, where in the Bill of Rights is the word vaccine? Or any discussion of vaccines? Where in the constitution does it say we can’t force sterilize welfare recipients? People whose religion or color we don’t like? Read Carolyn Kennedy’s book on the Bill of Rights if you really want an understanding of our first 10 amendments. Teachers won’t be forced to vaccinate because of lawsuits as much as you Freedom Haters are salivating over the idea. If you want that, America is not the country for you. Maybe the CCP is a better fit.

Anonymous said...

This has always been a world wide public health crisis since February of 2020 and has nothing to do with anything in the Constitution or the nonsense about fighting for freedom. This is still a world wide war— as the major biotech industries have worked in an unprecedented collaboration to develop vaccines rather quickly for emergency use. All unused vaccines refused by those who feel insulted by the government trampling on their personal rights—then their doses should be sent to India. The numbers seem to show there is progress with the vaccines. It might be a very patriotic gesture to have as many people vaccinated for the common good along with overall health and welfare for all.

Anonymous said...

Nobody is forcing you to get vaccinated but if you want to work in a public building with young people, get vaccinated or go on an unpaid leave.

This is a global pandemic. Do your part.

Prehistoric pedagogue said...

7:13 AM: Harrison Bergeron is my favorite Vonnegut story It seems much more applicable to the rampant “wokeness” prevalent in the DOE antipathy toward the intellectually gifted than it does to any vaccine issue.

Anonymous said...

Dear Trumpets,

Please read Jacobson v Massachusetts. The Supreme Court case from 1905. From a legal blog:

State and local governments in the United States have mandated immunizations as a prerequisite for attending public schools for quite some time. The Supreme Court has heard several challenges to these mandates and has consistently ruled the mandates to be constitutional. In this blog post, Dorit Reiss, PhD, discusses the Jacobson v. Massachusetts case from 1905 in which the Court upheld the authority of state governments to enforce laws that require their citizens to be immunized.

Anonymous said...

You are expecting people who get their news from One America News to read a court case. Can they even read?
I will keep it simple so as not to go over their ability to understsand:
Mandatory vaccineto teach: YES, YES, YES AND MORE YES.

Anonymous said...

Dear colleagues

In the fall, no more medical accommodations for anyone. No more remote learning. If u are too unwell to work go on disability. Stop the nonsense. I have more respect for grocery store workers than many cowardly DOE employees at all levels.

And one more thing, stop bitching about last Spring break back pay. We are lucky we were able to do our jobs from the safe perches of our homes and get paid full salary while the world burned.

I’m so sick of many who don’t get this.

Michael Gatton said...

Science - look at the data, form a hypothesis and strategy. More data become available, revise hypothesis or strategy as needed. Repeat.

It's a feature, not a bug.

Anonymous said...

Yes, a ‘global pandemic’ started in a Chinese lab, in the city that it originated in. Have you noticed how the countries most critical of China have been hit the hardest? India being the latest. All conspiracy theories of course, just like Epstein and UFOs.

Anon2323 said...

It has also been stated by Anthony Fauci at various times that a Ct value over 35 is likely to lead to an unreliable result.

By the way, Dr Kary Mullis, who won the Nobel Prize for inventing the PCR process, was clear that it wasn’t meant as a diagnostic tool. Of course, he died August 2019.

Everything can be manipulated with the testing: from msn.com
New York's state lab Wadsworth analyzed cycle thresholds values in already processed COVID-19 PCR tests and found in July that 794 positive tests were based on a threshold of 40 cycles.

With a cutoff of 35, about half of those tests would no longer qualify as positive. About 70 percent would no longer be judged positive if the cycles were limited to 30.

In Massachusetts, from 85 to 90 percent of people who tested positive in July with a cycle threshold of 40 would have been considered negative if the threshold were 30 cycles, Mina said.

Anonymous said...

What are you attempting to say 1:27, that there are so many false positives? Those 570,000 deaths, almost 200,000 on Biden's watch, are fake deaths too. In India, those are false deaths now too.

1:22, Brazil gets along pretty well with China and they were hit pretty hard so there goes that stupid conspiracy theory.

I read this blog and am truly stunned that some of these comments could be written by teachers who have advanced degrees.

I notice the right wing nuts have nothing to say on the Supreme Court ruling since 1905 that mandatory vaccinations are constitutional.

Yes, 1:05 open up with no accommodations and everyone vaccinated or on unpaid leave.

Anonymous said...

Throughout human history, when plagues hit, not getting infected & surviving was the goal. Late-stage Capitalism changed the rules. Personal enjoyment, working (out of necessity), & commerce are prioritized instead. Pandemics are now an individual experience, not a community one.

Anonymous said...

Mandatory Vax for sure.

Anonymous said...

Let's see if I can make juvenile plays on names:
Jao Bai Dung?
bLiededenistas?
Btw, have yall read U.S. v Corn Pop?

Anonymous said...

2:11, You think China didn’t create this virus? Be careful about calling teachers stupid when you have an IQ as low as your’s.

James Eterno said...

Anon 2323, I cited the Lancet. Conspiracy theory on what you cited in your deleted comment has to be backed up with some kind of reputable source if you want it posted here. Usually, I post your stuff but you want way out of right field so you better back it up.

Jeff said...

Ok, cool. The quote below is why we've been destroyed. Now think of all the pre pandemic failures. It's the attitude like that, the better than nothing attitude, that gets us continually walked on and abused.

"And one more thing, stop bitching about last Spring break back pay. We are lucky we were able to do our jobs from the safe perches of our homes and get paid full salary while the world burned."

Anonymous said...

A union to be proud of. What a scam.

Teachers union collaborated with CDC on school reopening guidance, emails show https://trib.al/8oYqRwj

Anonymous said...

How the fuck am I supposed to teach a remote class to students who can't read, write or speak English? Nycdoe at its very best.

Anonymous said...

@7:21 pm
Jeff,
You should assume that
"And one more thing, stop bitching about last Spring break back pay. We are lucky we were able to do our jobs from the safe perches of our homes and get paid full salary while the world burned."
was written by a Unity Mulgrew lackey who reads the blog
and reports directly back to Mulgrew. This person who wrote it has very low self esteem.
Just feel sorry for them and their students.

Anonymous said...

All the bums with "accommodations" are going to be disappointed when they have to go back in

Anonymous said...

Why would you refer to colleagues as bums?

Still no word on what right wing nuts are going to do if you have to be vaccinated to work which is perfectly legal if only we would stop listening to Trumpets.

Anonymous said...

Fuck you, asshole.

James Eterno said...

Can we lift the tone a bit from the 9:52 comment, please. I like quotes from The Terminator as much as the next person but it doesn't really help our cause to insult each other like that. The other person did start the personal attacks with the bum comment. Since you are all anonymous, we can laugh it off a bit but if it continues, we will just remove the whole conversation.

Anonymous said...

Jeff is correct. Spring break 2020 is one example of everything that has gone wrong since and including the 2005 contract. Whatever you give back you never get back. Some of you will never learn. Keep wondering why we keep getting taken advantage of as you tell us not to worry about working for free during a vacation. Retro 12 years...1% raises...

Anon2323 said...




I GET IT James, it's your blog.
Is this reputable James????
On May 28, 120 scientists from 24 countries sent an open letter to The Lancet right here.

https://zenodo.org/record/3862789#.YI4Gx5NKhb9

https://sciencex.com/news/2020-06-lancet-gate-covid-pandemic-era-alright.html

http://www.drbobroberts.com/uncategorized/the-lancet-gets-research-wrong-again/

@12:24 go to hell you POS, Rachel maddow nut job, a rat has more critical thinking skills than you. To ALL the other aholes who forcing vaccinations and want passports, awwww you are vaccinated what are you so scared of???? Hypocrites who do not care at all about bill of rights and the consitution.

James Eterno said...

Can't some of us try to disagree with just a tad more respect for one another?

Anonymous said...

Yes and then you liberals can go on indoctrinating the kids. I'm not getting vaccinated. I've also been in building teaching this whole time.

Anonymous said...

Many teachers are milking it. They are openly begging on facebook to be remote for next school year. SAD!

Anonymous said...

Worked spring break for free
Retro, waiting 12 years, no interest
Open market has no job
Summer school application not open
No calendar yet
No discipline code
Grade fraud forever
Yeah, no dues for that service

Anonymous said...

Plain and simple point here: I don't want to get vaccinated and that is my choice. I have been a teacher in the DOE for over 20 years. If they say I can't continue to work in my position because I choose not to get vaccinated, I am gonna sue the shit of them. Trust me, there are plenty of other teachers who feel the exact same way as I.

Anonymous said...

I'm still wondering how Summer school is going to work. If they are still going to have the 6 foot rule and you can only have 12 students per room, the schools are never going to have enough teachers. I always remember having 60 students on register for each class and having 40 or more show up in the first few weeks. There were so many students you had two at a desk cramped into one hot classroom. I think it's going to be full remote for the summer unless they continue doing the pods that they have now in the high schools. Anybody here anything about summer school?

James Eterno said...

Anon 2323, Thank you for providing links. Those are from mid 2020.

NIH study from later in the year in November backed up the earlier data that it doesn't help.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/hydroxychloroquine-does-not-benefit-adults-hospitalized-covid-19

National Institutes of Health clinical trial evaluating the safety and effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of adults with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has formally concluded that the drug provides no clinical benefit to hospitalized patients. Though found not to cause harm, early findings in June when the trial was stopped indicated that the drug was not improving outcomes in COVID-19 patients. Final data and analyses of the trial, which was funded by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), part of NIH, will appear online Nov. 9 in the Journal of the American Medical Association(link is external).

The trial, called Outcomes Related to COVID-19 treated with Hydroxychloroquine among Inpatients with symptomatic Disease (ORCHID), began after lab studies and preliminary reports suggested that hydroxychloroquine — commonly used to treat malaria and rheumatic conditions like arthritis — might have promise in treating SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

Time for the hard right answer on why NIH is in on a conspiracy too?

Anon2323 said...

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ James, 12:24 should have been deleted. Really got my blood boiling to accuse a network with more credibility than left media of us not knowing to read. That is beyond disrespectful. We are polar opposite polit๐Ÿ‘ically, can still debate our points. You will shame the right way more than the left comments who call us nut jobs, nazis etc that is for certain.

Back to the point, the Lancet report may be reputable but has holes like swiss cheese when it comes to covid.

James Eterno said...

On the issue of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, I followed the earlier commenter to Jacobson v Massachusetts and read a summary. It is interesting to note that the upholding of mandatory vaccination laws was written by John Marshall Harlan who was the same justice who wrote the famous dissent in Plessy v Ferguson that said the Constitution should be colorblind.

From the summary:

"in every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand" and that "[r]eal liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own [liberty], whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others."[2]

Furthermore, the Court held that mandatory vaccinations are neither arbitrary nor oppressive so long as they do not "go so far beyond what was reasonably required for the safety of the public".[2] In Massachusetts, with smallpox being "prevalent and increasing in Cambridge", the regulation in question was "necessary in order to protect the public health and secure the public safety".[2] The Court noted that Jacobson had offered proof that there were many in the medical community who believed that the smallpox vaccine would not stop the spread of the disease and, in fact, may cause other diseases of the body.[2] However, the opinions offered by Jacobson were "more formidable by their number than by their inherent value" and "[w]hat everybody knows, ... [the] opposite theory accords with the common belief and is maintained by high medical authority."[2] Therefore, it was left to the legislature, not the courts, to determine which of the "two modes was likely to be the most effective for the protection of the public against disease".[2] No one could "confidently assert that the means prescribed by the State to that end has no real or substantial relation to the protection of the public health and the public safety".[2]

The Constitution is on the side of mandatory vaccines if that is what government through the Legislature decides.

James Eterno said...

Your lawsuit might not go very far, 10:31.

I just read more from Jacobson:

“…the principle of vaccination as a means to prevent the spread of smallpox has been enforced in many States by statutes making the vaccination of children a condition of their right to enter or remain in public schools. Blue v. Beach, 155 Indiana 121; Morris v. City of Columbus, 102 Georgia 792; State v. Hay, 126 N.Car. 999; Abeel v. Clark, 84 California 226; Bissell v. Davidson, 65 Connecticut 18; Hazen v. Strong, 2 Vermont 427; Duffield v. Williamsport School District, 162 Pa.St. 476.”

James Eterno said...

That's lots of precedent. I am open minded on cases backing your view of the Bill of Rights.

Anonymous said...

And many are not milking it. Many do not even have or go on Facebook.

James Eterno said...

A modern discussion on Jacobson in this century:

Given the changes in constitutional law, public health, and government regulation, what kinds of public health laws that address contagious diseases might be constitutionally permissible today? A law that authorizes mandatory vaccination during an epidemic of a lethal disease, with refusal punishable by a monetary penalty, like the one at issue in Jacobson, would undoubtedly be found constitutional under the low constitutional test of “rationality review.” However, the vaccine would have to be approved by the FDA as safe and effective, and the law would have to require exceptions for those who have contraindications to the vaccine. A law that authorizes mandatory vaccination to prevent dangerous contagious diseases in the absence of an epidemic, such as the school immunization requirement summarily upheld in 1922, also would probably be upheld as long as (1) the disease still exists in the population where it can spread and cause serious injury to those infected, and (2) a safe and effective vaccine could prevent transmission to others.

The legitimacy of compulsory vaccination programs depends on both scientific factors and constitutional limits. Scientific factors include the prevalence, incidence, and severity of the contagious disease; the mode of transmission; the safety and effectiveness of any vaccine in preventing transmission; and the nature of any available treatment. Constitutional limits include protection against unjustified bodily intrusions, such as forcible vaccination of individuals at risk for adverse reactions, and physical restraints and unreasonable penalties for refusal.

And more:

Such cases underscore an important difference between laws that are intended to prevent a person from harming other people, which can be a justified exercise of police power, and laws that are intended to protect only the health of the individual herself, which are unjustified violations of liberty.

Anonymous said...

Half of the teachers from my school on accommodations are admittedly milking it. They laugh it off and say it is the greatest teaching year of their lives. They also admit that they teach live about half of their weekly schedule. My school has so much money, my principal continues to pay for remote after-school and remote Saturday school. My school is even paying remote substitutes!

Everyone needs to get back to work, vaccinated or not.

When it comes to Court cases, I would bring up Roe V. Wade. Right to privacy...I have the right to kill my baby....I can do what I want with my body....therefore I cannot be forced to have a vaccine injected into me. But considering we are living in times where media, social media, big tech, and the other billionaires control everything, I do not think the Constitution matters.

disgusted in Queens said...

1:05-Spring Break------Yes, we were fortunate to work from home and as a result collect our regular salary during a pandemic. The issue is we were forced to work overtime. We were all forced to give up scheduled time off when we were not planning to work. We needed the time off to clear our heads and have a mental break or whatever anyone wanted to do since it was supposed to be our own free time. We understand the mayor and government thought it was necessary for students to receive additional instruction that week.

Any other educator that worked that additional week as well as any other person working from home if asked to work extra was paid OT AND PAID IN A TIMELY MANNER. Why do you place so little value in what we do as educators that you don't feel that we as NYC teachers should not be fairly compensated for additional time worked?

Anonymous said...

Msm has you believing Trump voters are dummies who can’t read. But the reality is you Biden voters run every shitty school system in the country and you’re producing dummies who can’t read. Scaredy cat teachers should barricade themselves inside their homes and no longer be paid.

Anonymous said...

Why are you ok with illegals being allowed to enter and roam around with no COVID testing or vaccine but not your fellow Americans?
I’d love to help our ally India but China said no. So Beijing Biden obliges China. Vaccinated Trump supporter here.

Anonymous said...

For the teachers who aren't milking it, you've had from December 2020 till September 2021 to be vaccinated.

Anonymous said...

It’s a violation of federal law to force an emergency use vaccination on people. The law that permits emergency use also containers language prohibiting forced vaccinations. In a year or two we may have a licensed vaccine and then the force debate can take place. For now, sorry Freedom Haters you’ll just have to work among kids and colleagues who are not vaccinated. Hopefully we won’t kill you in the next 12-24 months but maybe you should go on unpaid leave just in case. Hell maybe you should get a third or fourth dose of the vaccine to up your odds. And don’t forget to triple mask.
-Illiterate Trump voter who somehow managed to read and comprehend 21 US Code section 360bbb-3.

Anon2323 said...

James I appreciate the deep dive and it sounds like you learned something too. Bringing up a case from 1905 is laughable ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚. 120 years ago they had nowhere near the technology and advancements we currently have. When pandemics or sicknesses emerged it was beyond petrifying because millions could die. This virus has a 99% survival rate and the vaccinated should feel invincible after getting it. I can care less what judges from 120 years ago decided on life or death matter with no vaccines.

If covid were to kill millions with 60% survival maybe just maybe I would vaccinate not for 99%. Good effort as always. BTW Bill Maher the condescending arrogant prick even admitted Russia was a hoax, you and the rest believed it. You have very little credibility in politics, education a different story.

Anonymous said...

I’m not getting the vaccine. I’ve been teaching, outside NYC, since September, with the month of January going remote. All you pro- abortion folks touting women rights think nothing of forcing people to get vaccinated. Well it my body, bitches. Lol. Do a post on Bill Gates and all the crap he’s up to capitalizing on fear and pharmaceuticals. And you non-thinking folks think he’s the best thing since Al Shanker.

James Eterno said...

Russia was basically BS. I can read and make up my own mind.

Anonymous said...

I’ll bet you spring break pay that nyc teachers will never be forced to get COVID vaccine. Whine away sheeple. It’ll never happen.

James Eterno said...

I am learning as I go along on vaccine mandates for employment or school under Emergency Use Authorization.

Here is part of an opinion in Stat:

https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/05/authorization-status-covid-19-vaccine-red-herring-mandating-vaccination/

One argument against mandates is that individuals cannot be required to get a vaccine that is being distributed under an EUA, as opposed to a full license, an argument made in a recent First Opinion. That would potentially delay Covid-19 vaccine mandates until the FDA approved the first vaccine under a biologics license application (BLA) — and so far the timing of that is unknown.

Important nuances lead us to a very different conclusion: There are few to no legal barriers to employers or schools requiring vaccines being distributed under EUAs.

Among those who believe that EUA vaccines cannot be mandated, the best two arguments are a legal argument and a policy one. The legal argument is that the law setting out the requirements for emergency use authorization contains language requiring the Secretary of Health and Human Services to ensure that people know they can refuse or accept the vaccine. The same language requires the informational materials accompanying EUA vaccines to tell people that “It is your choice to receive” the relevant vaccine.

The policy argument against mandates is that the standards for emergency use authorization are lower than the standards for full approval, that the vaccines are “experimental” and not enough is known about them, and it is therefore unfair to mandate them. Two lawsuits have already been filed making both the legal and policy arguments, one by a corrections officer in New Mexico, and one by employees of the Los Angeles United School District.

There are good reasons to reject both of these arguments, though. On the legal side, the EUA statute says nothing directed at employers or universities. Instead, it addresses the actions of federal officials, such as the HHS secretary and the president — not private actors. Private employees are generally “at will,” meaning they can be terminated for any reason that is not explicitly illegal. Those arguing that the EUA statute prohibits mandates by at-will employers are claiming that this federal law is changing existing state employment law on the topic by mere implication. They are reading in a broad prohibition covering all employers and universities in the U.S. that is not, in fact, in the statute. Such broad preemption would require, at a minimum, clearer language.

Related: Resistance from health experts and business owners could doom ‘vaccine passports’ even before they launch
During the pandemic, employers and universities have already required Covid-19 tests, many of which are being provided under emergency use authorization, for their in-person employees and returning students. If mandating products like tests under an EUA is unlawful, then every employer or university requiring the use of those tests has been flagrantly violating the law.

Before the pandemic, the general position of the relevant federal agencies, such as the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, was that vaccines provided under emergency use authorization cannot be mandated. But that guidance was not binding. When confronted with pandemic realities, the federal government took the position that “[w]hether an employer may require or mandate Covid-19 vaccination is a matter of state or other applicable law.” Legally, there is nothing to prevent such a reasonable position shift.

James Eterno said...

Continued:

Critics of mandating Covid-19 vaccines often cite their “experimental” nature and EUA status. It is true that, formally, the emergency use authorization requires substantially less evidence than does approval of a biologics license application. But Covid-19 vaccines were held to a high standard, which the FDA has described as EUA-plus.

These emergency use authorizations were issued based on data from clinical trials including tens of thousands of people — as comprehensive as the data generally submitted for licensed vaccines. Further, the data supporting their use are extremely strong. mRNA vaccines are more than 90% effective. Not only did the trials not raise safety concerns but now, with tens of millions of doses given in what is probably the most closely observed vaccination effort in the United States, the vaccines’ safety record is very strong. mRNA vaccines do cause higher rates of allergic reactions than routine vaccines, but even those are rare — 2 to 11 per million doses. Other than that, no serious harms have been convincingly linked to the Covid-19 vaccines authorized in the United States.

The federal government has traditionally regulated employers and universities in two ways. It has used regulations to increase safety in the workplace. The federal government generally does not intervene to prohibit safety measures or, in other words, to decrease safety. It also regulates employers and universities to prevent some types of discrimination against those with disabilities or based on religion. Along those lines, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has made it clear that employers may exclude from the workplace employees who refuse to be vaccinated, but should not discriminate against those who cannot receive Covid-19 vaccines because of an underlying disability or religious belief.

A vaccine requirement is a safety measure, in that it is meant to protect the health of employees, clients, students, and others in workplaces or schools. Employment in the U.S. is largely at will, allowing employers wide latitude in setting workplace rules. Without clear indications that requiring Covid-19 vaccination is legally forbidden, employers and universities should be allowed to do that — which isn’t to say a vaccine mandate is the right choice for a university or employer. That is a more complex question that will depend on expectations of how many employees or students will get vaccinated without a mandate and the effect of mandates on vaccine hesitancy.

But it is likely a legal choice, despite the EUA status of these vaccines.

James Eterno said...

I have questions and would like help. I get that the vaccines are not fully licensed but the Stat opinion piece gives both sides and concludes the mandates would be legal now under Emergency Use Authorization.

Part of the piece says that the COVID tests are legal under EUA. Therefore, didn't teachers in NYC and other staff already set the precedent that for in-person learning they have to get tested or go on unpaid leave?

Anonymous said...

Here is a big question to ponder: Let's say the DOE mandates vaccines for teachers by September and teachers who refuse to get vaccinated will be put on unpaid leave. Will the DOE come down hard on these teachers when they do choose to return? Will they maintain their seniority and be able to return to their exact previous assignment? I believe that quite a few teachers would be more than happy to add on a couple of months to summer vacation by taking an unpaid leave if they can and then get vaccinated in say, November. Oh yeah, teachers should also be able to use CAR days if they choose to take an unpaid leave, that would not cost the city a dime.

Anonymous said...

Yes teachers are milking it. I know teachers that went on vacation on planes during spring break who are on accommodations, and I do agree that it's hypocritical to allow women to get abortions for whatever reason they want, and for you who are going to say rape, less than 1 percent of abortions are done for rape, and force people to get vaccinated.

Bronx ATR said...

Bill Gates has made sure you’ll need booster shots with the Mod and Pfz shots. Just like when he sold computers and they continually got viruses and broke down. You’ll have to get more shots and the government will have to pay more money. You’re better off getting the Johnson and Johnson if you want to get a vaccine.

Anonymous said...

"Can't some of us try to disagree with just a tad more respect for one another?"
Show respect like by censoring comments that trigger you...that's the leftist, woke way.
Lmao while smh.
We shall overcome.

Anonymous said...

This has always been about an emergency world-wide health emergency. It still just amazes me that some commenters on this site don't realize that these vaccinations are part of public health safety concerns. American exceptionalism is no longer valid along with the selfishness. You would think that if as many people possible were vaccinated, it would put a lid on the pandemic for the health and welfare of all—and recent stats are showing this to be true. Unfortunately, India only has about 2% of its population vaccinated.

So a little more about smallpox. It was deadly and infectious around the world for centuries as the isolation lasted for several days and 3 out of every ten infected people died —with survivors that developed bad scars. It was eradicated by 1980 due to mass vaccinations made available mainly in North America and Europe by the early 1900’s and eventually the entire world.

So that being the case about smallpox, just wondering—if there was a safe vaccine available for this deadly smallpox by the mid 19th century—which was mandated by the US government –how would some of those same commenters feel about the US government in 1856 telling you must get that smallpox vaccine —non-negotiable —( except for some rare circumstance) ? What do you think? Would you get the vaccine?

Anonymous said...

As far as I know, once you are taken off payroll, you no longer have your position unless you put in for a leave of absence, maternity or paternity leave.

Anonymous said...

Not gonna happen, my delicate snowflakes. And btw more and more and more kids still in cages.

Anonymous said...

Shots or no teach. Simple as that.

Anonymous said...

Vaccine or you go on an unpaid leave, what is the problem with that? You have all the freedom you want but you don't have the freedom to infect me or the students who can't be vaccinated yet at middle school and elementary school ages. If you have a medical exemption, great. Otherwise get a COVID shot to work in a school

Anonymous said...

No shot. You stay home if you’re afraid of me.

Anonymous said...

No, you stay home if you won't get vaccinated. You are the danger, not me.

Anonymous said...

Nope. Not staying home. See you in school. Ive been there all along. I’ll teach your class for per session if you’re too scared to come in.

Anonymous said...

Then go get vaccinated. Otherwise, stay away.

Anonymous said...

Nope. Still not doing it. Work with me or go on unpaid leave. I’ll be there every day. See ya soon.